Friction with our pastor

[animechica]

Alright, I'll try to keep this short.
I'd like to preface this by saying that our church's pastor seems to be a very dedicated man, and I really am grateful that we have someone to preach a sermon every Sunday and lead other activities as well. However...

I've recently gotten fed up with this situation... The pastor of our church can be very offensive. He brings politics into nearly every morning sermon, constantly talking about Israel and a lot of the times making it sound like what the Jews believe is equally as valid as our Christian beliefs. I know he knows this is not the case, but he talks about Jewish people like they're some kind of superior race, calling us "We Gentiles" and all this nonsense, when clearly, even Paul (IIRC) said that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. He's used racial slurs from the pulpit and sometimes makes potentially offensive jokes, making me really scared to invite my friends. I don't want them to think Christians believe this is acceptable behavior in any setting, especially a church...

So with that said, I already have a bit of a problem. But I'm starting to get even more frustrated because my pastor has the impression that my boyfriend is a lazy bum. Because my boyfriend's family has significant issues that are not entirely his fault, they now have one working car out of three which his mom takes to work. He is unemployed and wants to go back to college, but nobody seems eager to do the work to help get him a student loan and they have bad credit as well. I want him to come back to school this next semester and he does too, but he's doubtful it will happen. He isn't happy about the arrangement, but he's very laid-back by nature and has pretty much given up. Well, my pastor doesn't know every little family detail so he's got it in his mind that my boyfriend is simply lazy and needs to get out of the house. Also, because he's quiet and dislikes talking about personal things with people he doesn't have a solid friendship with, I think people in my church question his faith and spirituality. He's not exactly the poster child for a normal person (wears mostly black/skull style/video game shirts, longer hair, scruffy face, etc) and I feel like people are making assumptions that aren't entirely fair as they've never taken the time to get to know him.

What's even more aggravating is that instead of asking my boyfriend what they want to know, they ask ME... I am also a shy person but I like to speak my mind if I have something I feel strongly about, so people know what I believe a little better. I think they feel like I'm more approachable, or something. Anyway, my pastor keeps asking me about my boyfriend, like "What's he doing with all this time" or "Where is he today" when he's not going to be able to get up for church due to his sleep schedule (if he takes his meds too late or other factors can mess it up, he has insomnia) and it's always in this curious and slightly skeptical tone. Tonight I signed up to pass out tracts for our church float in the upcoming community parade, and my pastor was like "Try to get other people to come..." and looked over at my boyfriend (he can make it for night church), "see if your boyfriend would come... But not in that skull shirt!" in this really huffy tone of voice... I was kinda stunned. After all, I bought him the shirt, and it's a Captain Harlock skull, like on the flag on the Arcadia, lol. So it's actually an anime shirt, but I figured it would be more trouble than it's worth explaining something like that.

So I feel like, it's one more strike against my boyfriend, whom I really love and whom I feel is being unfairly judged. I wish people, especially my pastor, would just ask him questions if they wanted to know about him and his situation... It makes me feel sick when I think about someone like him being mistaken as an evil or just lazy person, like all his problems are his fault. You know?

Anyway, if you guys could just pray or if you have any advice, that'd be great... sorry if it doesn't make any sense, there's a LOT of components to
everything that I don't want to make people sit through, haha.

[Peanut]

I'll be praying.

May I ask what's keeping you two at the church?

[Makachop^^128]

wow... will be praying it must be hard going to that church.

[animechica]

I'll be praying.

May I ask what's keeping you two at the church?

Well, it's a choice of either Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian churches in our town (within walking distance) and the Baptist one is closest to our beliefs (it's basically a non-denominational type of church AFAIK). I have tons of family there, grew up going to that church, and my boyfriend also has attended since he was in junior high. (His mom was coming when she could until a couple weeks ago she got upset when my Pastor referred to the Jehovah's Witnesses he saw at their door one day as "niggers"... He later apologized and said "It was the South coming out in me" but that didn't really make her feel any better about it.)

So yeah, basically it's the hope that things will get better, plus the other people there are generally more tactful, although there's a simmering dispute about music styles, but that's a whole other animal.

My family pretty much gave up looking for a different church but I know they still have disagreements with stuff that's said. At least it makes for good conversation and debate...

[rocklobster]

I think you should go to the churches that are closer. Who knows, maybe the pastors are nicer. Besides, every Catholic church I've been in is quite pleasant. But then, I'm biased. I'm Catholic myself.

[K. Ayato]

I agree. Even though you've been with this pastor for years, it wouldn't hurt to pay a visit to the other churches. Continue to keep this issue in prayer, but if there seems to be no indication of change in his attitude, it might be wise to relocate to another church. I understand it won't be easy (having been a church-hopper for some time before finding one I can call home), but the Lord knows which one you belong in, and He'll smooth out the transition for you if need be .

[Solid Snake]

I will make sure to pray about this. Pastor/people confrontations are always sticky, especially in the Baptist denomination. Sounds like he needs to start thinking about people instead of politics. He should take a genuine interest in your boyfriend and try to get to know him. And I can't believe anyone would say "ni---r" from behind the pulpit. Wow.

Has anyone confronted the Pastor about this? The Bible is quite clear about race, etc. There should be no racial slander in the Church - like you cited, Colossians 3. Conversely, maybe the Pastor is just feeling a bit overstressed. Is there a lot of growing immorality in the Church? Sure, he shouldn't be passing judgment on everyone. But sometimes we forget the stress level of a Pastor. Whatever we can do to help should be attempted.

Well, that's my thoughts. Don't take em' too seriously! Will be praying.

[Anystazya]

I had this whole long reply written out, and then I was like, 'You know what, scratch this. It's easier to get straight to the point.' So, yeah...

My dad is the pastor of my church, and I know him. He's likes when people give him suggestions about how to help improve the service, because he wants church to be a place to edify the body of Christ. So, maybe try talking to your pastor. Tell him about your concerns. Or, if you do decide to leave this church, before you go, tell him why you're leaving. That might give him a reality check. Then again, I do understand that this is the church where you have grown up, so it would be hard to leave it...however, if you feel offended going to the church, you should seriously think about your options. Maybe try thinking about churches that are farther away. I know people who used to drive to the next town to get to church (which is only about 15-20 minutes...but still...it might be worth it if you find the perfect church for your beliefs and personal needs...)

Anyways. I won't go on too much, because I can only imagine that this might be a difficult situation for you...But I'll be praying =)

[Chrysolite]

I can't think of a better way to say this, so forgive me if it's too blunt.

If you don't feel comfortable inviting people to your church, you probably shouldn't be going there yourself. I'm not saying you should up and leave, but the purpose of the church gathering is the encouragement and spiritual edification of its members. If you're being torn down instead of built up, and you really are trying to live for God, there's an obvious problem with the way things are being handled in that church. I understand how much pressure pastors are under, but if they can't handle that pressure they shouldn't be pastors. I'm not saying that we shouldn't allow them human mistakes like the rest of us, but from what you've said, it doesn't sound to me like your pastor sees his approach as mistaken, and that strikes me as prideful. I don't doubt that he sincerely wants to serve God and advance His Kingdom, but if he's not 'feeding the sheep' so to speak, he's not fulfilling God's purpose for such a leader. Also, the fact that he has joined the ranks of those who would ask a man's girlfriend about his issues instead of asking the man to his face, makes me very angry. There is certain behavior that is simply unacceptable for a pastor. There is a difference between concern and gossip. I think he has some pride issues he needs to work out with God before he has any business leading a group of believers. I will certainly pray for him, but I don't think you should wait around for him to be delivered of this failing. You need to find a place where you can be fed spiritually, or it will be difficult for you to grow in your own relationship with God.

Again, I'm sorry if this was too straightforward. Possibly the reason I'm so outspoken about this is because a close friend of mine (who had struggled with some MAJOR issues beforehand) went through similar judgment with her peers and youth pastor and it almost drove her out of the church. Another reason is because the way you described your boyfriend, “quiet and dislikes talking about personal things with people he doesn't have a solid friendship with" pretty much describes me when I get in a group setting, and while I haven't faced any of the scrutiny you're describing myself, I can certainly say it would bother me. Church leaders-- especially pastors-- need to be aware of possible struggles that people may be facing in their lives, otherwise they end up unconsciously hurting people like you and your boyfriend and inhibiting the growth that they are supposed to be encouraging.

[Makachop^^128]

Well, it's a choice of either Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian churches in our town (within walking distance) and the Baptist one is closest to our beliefs (it's basically a non-denominational type of church AFAIK). I have tons of family there, grew up going to that church, and my boyfriend also has attended since he was in junior high. (His mom was coming when she could until a couple weeks ago she got upset when my Pastor referred to the Jehovah's Witnesses he saw at their door one day as "niggers"... He later apologized and said "It was the South coming out in me" but that didn't really make her feel any better about it.)

So yeah, basically it's the hope that things will get better, plus the other people there are generally more tactful, although there's a simmering dispute about music styles, but that's a whole other animal.

My family pretty much gave up looking for a different church but I know they still have disagreements with stuff that's said. At least it makes for good conversation and debate...

If I were you I would take this time for you and your boyfriend to visit other churches and see what they believe, and get to know each others beliefs better ^^

[Dr.Faust]

I'll preay
I would try to vist other churches.

[animechica]

Wow, thanks guys for your concern >o<

@Solid Snake: He didn't use that particular term from behind the pulpit, but in a phone conversation with my boyfriend's mother. He has however used other offensive terms in sermons, although it's only once in a great while, it's always a stunner. More common is the near-weekly political commentary...

I don't think there's a great deal of growing immorality, honestly. There are a few people my age who have been dabbling in some stuff they shouldn't, but I dunno how much my pastor would be aware of.

@ Anystazya: I really value your input as a PK :b I'm technically one myself but my dad stopped preaching a loong time ago, haha. Anyway, the thing is, my pastor doesn't seem to be someone who wants to hear a dissenting viewpoint. I'm not sure of his exact age but he's definitely a senior citizen and he's been preaching for a long time before coming to us, so I think he's kinda set in his ways. Now my mother has many disagreements with what this man says, so one day she went to talk to him about it at his house. IIRC, she said it was no good talking to him, and later his wife called and informed my mom that she couldn't go stirring things up like that because "his blood pressure was high." So yeah, not the best situation... I'm pretty scared to talk to him myself, he's made my dad cry before (although it might've been out of frustration, lol)

@Chrysolite: The thing is though, other events like Youth Groups and stuff like that are run by other people in the church so it's not as much of a problem there. I have been very uplifted by Youth Group and sunday school lessons in the past (we have different sunday schools for all age groups), so I don't want to throw everything good away. The trouble with inviting friends is that somewhere along the line, youth group and regular preaching will get merged... It happened IIRC in a Super Bowl event one year, and a lot of people unfamiliar to our church ended up in the service (including one guy who has claimed to be a Satanist before) and I was on edge the whole time, haha. My pastor unfortunately, because he can't see very well, mistook the longhaired guy for a girl and referred to him as "The young lady in the back" haha XD But it could've been worse... lots worse... T_T

[Chrysolite]

Well, it's ultimately your call. I can certainly understand why you don't want to throw away the good with the bad, but it's really sad for me to think that you feel like you can't even invite people into your church family because of your pastor.

The trouble with inviting friends is that somewhere along the line, youth group and regular preaching will get merged...

Exactly. Whatever else is going on in the church, the senior pastor is the one it all points back to. If the church was a ship, he'd be both the captain and the figurehead. If he doesn't lead well, everyone ultimately suffers, and everyone on the outside will judge the group as a whole based on him. I'm not saying that the efforts of the other members of the church don't matter, but a major spiritual flaw on the part of the pastor is bound to damage to the church body. I guess I sort of feel like going to a church signifies that you agree with the pastor on most major issues. If I felt like the pastor of my church wasn't properly representing my values, I would feel wrong staying at that church. Of course, you have a somewhat complicated situation, so I'm by no means saying that you must leave your church. I just think that if you're really so uncomfortable with your pastor it may be time to move on. My family went through a similar dilemma when I was little. Our church had this anti-TV stance and started giving us the cold shoulder because we had a TV. Now, TV may not sound like a serious issue, but it showed my parents a cold and superficial side to the people there and they didn't want to be part of that. Mom and Dad mutually decided that it wasn't the place for us, so we started going to a new church, and that church has been our happy home for the past 12 years. I believe that if you're serious about living for God, He'll give you a place where you can be welcomed and accepted as an equal child of God. Maybe that means staying and maybe it means going, but don't stay just because you feel like there's nowhere else to go. God will provide! Maybe you should start your own church!

Anyways, I'll keep you, your boyfriend, and your pastor in my prayers, and I hope that he will soon feel some conviction to be more kind and less stubborn. Ganbatte ne! ^-^

[mechana2015]

Maybe just stop going to main services?

That's what I've done when faced with issues like this. (and I have... quite a few times)

I can also see where your boyfriend is at mentally since I seem to think the same way in some ways (I rarely talk stuff out unless I've known a person for a long time) and if he's anything like me, and might just want to get out at some point, and just avoid the confrontation altogether, especially if his attitude is similar to mine. (a bit of a presumption there)

Eventually something like this will break open on one side or the other, so I suggest you decide when and where to deal with it before someone else decides for you.

[Zoan]

Sounds like your pastor needs a lesson in humility, God willing.

[Anystazya]

@ Anystazya: I really value your input as a PK :b I'm technically one myself but my dad stopped preaching a loong time ago, haha. Anyway, the thing is, my pastor doesn't seem to be someone who wants to hear a dissenting viewpoint. I'm not sure of his exact age but he's definitely a senior citizen and he's been preaching for a long time before coming to us, so I think he's kinda set in his ways. Now my mother has many disagreements with what this man says, so one day she went to talk to him about it at his house. IIRC, she said it was no good talking to him, and later his wife called and informed my mom that she couldn't go stirring things up like that because "his blood pressure was high." So yeah, not the best situation... I'm pretty scared to talk to him myself, he's made my dad cry before (although it might've been out of frustration, lol)

Well, that really isn't good, IMHO. The pastor is, essentially, at the head of the physical church (God sits on the throne at the head, but a pastor is still a pastor). People will look to him when things need to get done. He shouldn't be ignoring their input, or not listening to his congregation. My dad isn't really a senior citizen, but I know he has some issues where he knows what he believes, and he believes them strongly. However, he gets along with all the people of our congregation. Maybe that's because it's so small, but...still. He's been preaching through Revelation for the past while, which many people can have strong viewpoints on, and he expresses his educated opinion on certain issues, but he also says that the people shouldn't just believe or think something because he said it. They should go home, read their Bible, and decide what they think. He doesn't force them to agree with him. My dad is good friends with the people (especially because many of them have kids around the same age as his own children ). But your pastor doesn't seem to be at all the same as my dad. And really, if you're constantly disagreeing with the pastor of your church, it doesn't really do a lot of good to stay there...he's not some higher-up person just because he has the title of a pastor. I know, because I live with one, and I know my dad has a short temper. He's my dad. I know he doesn't like seeing his little kids grow up so fast ^^ The pastor is honestly just a person with God in their hearts, who have the gift of teaching that to others given them by God. They're not somebody who's better than everybody else. People just have different gifts...and they should use those for edifying the body of Christ, rather than bring them down...

If he's not willing to listen to you, then I honestly think you shouldn't stay...and I won't go on much longer because I've gotta get to school...

[Lady Kenshin]

Two words:

New church.

I'm awfully sorry about your situation. I've been in some cruddy churches too, but phew! Praying.