A more philosophical view

[eye776]

Ok. Sorry if I'm offending anyone through this post but, sincerely when I first entered this forum I thought.
"Finally some people who take their time to analise an anime and decide how apropriate it is."
Balderdash Same "anime is great. no comment. end of discussion." as on other forums.

Ok, now to get to the point. I searched for and saw that no one seems to notice some INTERESTING points of view concerning some anime series. I'll start off my (short) analysis with these two titles:

- Magic Knight Rayearth
- Karin

I chose these two because they pose for something they are not. First of all MKR. Now I know MKR looks like prime RPG material and has a decent story and all but whatch the first season closely a few times. What it looked like to me was obiously not the story of 3 girls trying to rescue a world but of 3 unsuspecting demons that destroy a world. My first arguments are the "Spiral flash" spell (obviously a knock-off the mark of the AHEM) and the actual ending sequence. (plus that they say mokona is ***).

Ok on to the next one. You might ask me why I chose this show (Karin) to thrash around. Well I admit. It's a nice show, quite cute but episodes 23 and 24 spoil the whole show. I mean the fact that Karin awakens as her inner beast (reverse crucification) is like OMG! And the biting scenes at the end fills up the glass to the brim.

I have nothing against nudity (partial and moderate) or some angry language, but thrashing Christianity and Catolicism has become quite common for recent anime. I understand that japan was offended by catholics in history, but Christianity NEVER EVER walked up on someone else's teritorry to forcibly convert them.

Sorry for the long post. I feel relieved now
I can give more examples of relligion bashing in anime's if you want but I somehow don't think that'll be necessary.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

...but Christianity NEVER EVER walked up on someone else's teritorry to forcibly convert them.


Are you sure about that one? I mean committed (true) Christianity didn't but what about all the posers?
And Catholics are Christian also.

[eye776]

Hey, we don't make fun of their culture and market it world wide... No offense. BTW I was refering to Orthodox Christianity on a note. Of course Catholics are Christians as well but how would you like to be placed "in the same pot" with some family who le's say steals something just because "you're a relative of his". Again no offense.

And please do talk about this concerning anime. I do not intend to make a relligion war here. Just to sort out a delicate subject.

[Puritan]

Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you. While I don't know the series in question, I do know there are reviews that are highly critical of anime for anti-christian or pagan attitudes, and most people here call them as they see them. Some shows are good, others not so good. The shows you've mentioned are not reviewed here, but I know of others that have been reviewed with a critical look at these types of attitudes or situations. It's something we look for, and simply because there is a lack of a review about these shows does not indicate acceptance of the material in them. From what I have seen, people here will criticize or praise individual shows rather than making blanket statements about anime because we've come to understand that the shows vary greatly, much like American TV shows do. Thus, you aren't likely to find a thread bashing anime as a whole for being anti-Christian, just threads or reviews saying individual shows are, and to be honest, most of us avoid shows that are heavily critical of Christianity because they usually just aren't enjoyable to watch for Christians. I won't argue with you that Japanese culture isn't always respectful or accepting of Christianity, I doubt anyone here would dispute that. It is a sad state of things, and something that God has laid on the hearts of many here, so we aren't ignoring the situation. However, to come in and criticize us for not criticizing a couple of series you found objectionable isn't going to win you friends. Next time please take a little more time before criticizing an entire community for not being critical enough, because looking through out reviews would, in my opinion, paint a very different picture from the one you have given.

[Radical Dreamer]

I chose these two because they pose for something they are not. First of all MKR. Now I know MKR looks like prime RPG material and has a decent story and all but whatch the first season closely a few times. What it looked like to me was obiously not the story of 3 girls trying to rescue a world but of 3 unsuspecting demons that destroy a world. My first arguments are the "Spiral flash" spell (obviously a knock-off the mark of the AHEM) and the actual ending sequence. (plus that they say mokona is ***).

Sooo...Yeah, what are you saying, exactly? I've never seen the MKR anime, but I've read all of the manga, and I found it to be extremely clean. Yes, Mokona [SPOILER]is portrayed as a god at the end, but as the series is not written by Christians, is fantasy, and is obviously not talking about our God...I don't really think that's enough reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.[/SPOILER]

Also, what are you talking about when you mention the "mark of the AHEM"? You mean beast? And by that, do you mean the Star of David in the circle that shows up at the end? Well, I don't think that's what you're thinking of. XD As far as I know, it's the five-sided start that's regarded as evil, not the Star of David.

Thirdly, what do you mean by "3 demons trying to destroy a world"? I...certainly don't recall any worlds being deliberately destroyed by the girls in MKR, and I also think you're either making things up, or reading WAAAY too far into things that really have nothing to do with your argument.

There are a lot of anime out there that use Christian imagery, but did you know that 90% of the time, it's not meant to be blasphemous or offensive in any way? The Japanese are infatuated with Western culture, and Christianity is a big part of that. They use cross images because they think it looks "cool", and they often use the Catholic church for story-related purposes. It's not how I'd like the symbols of my religion to be used, but I don't think it's done with any ill-intent.

Anyways, that said, I'm glad you're looking into anime to see if it's appropriate for you. Still, I think you're a bit off the mark in some areas, though I can only comment on MKR, as I haven't read/watched Karin (or heard of it, for that matter. XD; ). Nevertheless, welcome to the boards! I hope this post helps you out a bit!

[eye776]

**** I knew this was gonna be the reaction. I was "bashing" some anime not all (I haven't even seen all). Not all. I can clearly remember a certain scene where a demonic figure is shown a cross and it's reaction is laughter followed by a punch in face. Not exactly Christian.

And I don't critize your comunity. I just think that (generally speaking) some people take it too lightly. But nevermind that.

Thus, you aren't likely to find a thread bashing anime as a whole for being anti-Christian, just threads or reviews saying individual shows are, and to be honest, most of us avoid shows that are heavily critical of Christianity because they usually just aren't enjoyable to watch for Christians.

And how do you tell by not watching? Whatever. It's not just A show. If I take ANIME 1994+ I'd say about 60% of the shows have somewhat objectionable content (and I am not confusing children targeted shows with adult targeted ones, I KNOW ANIME does not necessarily mean CARTOONS).

The problem is that jap. have a taste for business and people are WAY TOO INTERESTED in the occult (wasn't that agains Jesus teachings?) and thay're making proffit off selling their culture (some taoist and shintoist branches are filled with MAN's No.1 enemy ) and their relligion in the form of movies, books, anime, games, etc.

I'm not saying to ban it. Heavens no. I'm not that boxed. And I choose what to watch. But all I'm asking is that when they make a 'clean' series, they should keep it 'clean' head to tail.

a quote from a certain Priest in my country
"If down a pipe there ran clean spring water mixed with a stable's waste and someone were to drink from it, what is the taste he would feel?"

and this one

"if in a box of good potatoes you place a sinle rotten one, what will happen?"

EDIT:

@ Radical Dreamer
No man, not just the star. The three swirling colours of the spell. (Man, I hate it when I don't have a screenshot.)

[Mr. SmartyPants]

The problem is that jap. have a taste for business and people are WAY TOO INTERESTED in the occult (wasn't that agains Jesus teachings?) and thay're making proffit off selling their culture (some taoist and shintoist branches are filled with MAN's No.1 enemy ) and their relligion in the form of movies, books, anime, games, etc.

I am offended by the way you said "Jap". It's quite derogatory. As an asian, I really don't like it when people go "krn" or "azn" or "jap" or whatever. Especially when they themselves are not asian.

Anyway, with this statement. I think it is downright incorrect. The audience of anime isn't "occult-interested people". It's people interested in EVERYTHING. Action, romance, comedy, philosophical thinking, etc.

They are not "making profits" off of their culture. They are making profits of their products. Tell me sir, if YOU wrote a story or a screenplay, wouldn't you incorporate some of your idealistic thinking or philosophy into your OWN works? I sure would.

And it's awfully close-minded to talk down upon other religions like that. I'm taking a world religions class, and it's opening me up to new ideas. Of course I will never agree with other religions, but I don't bash them either.

[Radical Dreamer]

@ Radical Dreamer
No man, not just the star. The three swirling colours of the spell. (Man, I hate it when I don't have a screenshot.)

Soo...are red, blue, and green suddenly inherently evil colors now, or...?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I have nothing against nudity (partial and moderate) or some angry language, but thrashing Christianity and Catolicism has become quite common for recent anime. I understand that japan was offended by catholics in history, but Christianity NEVER EVER walked up on someone else's teritorry to forcibly convert them.

Oh, and don't we in the west bash eastern religion as well? What do you think Apu from The Simpsons is? Christian? No he's Hindu. American Cinema ALWAYS makes fun of other cultures/religions/etc. Theres nothing philosophical about your statements at all, just bias.

You also need to realize that asians think that westernism is cool. Just look at their "hip" clothing. It's all Hillfiger and Ralph Lauren and American Eagle. They like to incorporate Christianity in their works (Chrno Crusade, Hellsing, FMA, etc) Because they think it's cool and neat. The same way "The Matrix" might possibly have some gnostic elements to it. They do it for a "cool twist", not to bash anybody.

And why do you say Catholicism is not Christianity. Of course it is. Any catholic is a christian brother or sister of mine.

Oh, and yeah Christians (I would assume you mean Protestants) actually did forcibly convert people in the past.

[Puritan]

I never claimed we could tell without watching, people will run into bad shows still, but if you try to look into a series you can usually tell if it is overtly hostile to the faith. As for Japan and the occult...let me put it this way. Shusaku Endo, probably the best known Christian novelist in Japan (perhaps one of the best known Christian figures in Japan from my understanding) referred to the Japanese religious mishmash as a noxious swamp, swallowing almost any religion it touches and combining them in unhealthy ways. I find the explanation apt. The religious system is a combination of a bunch of things, and I won't say it's healthy or good, but I think most on this site have realized that anime will contain doses of that type of thing, just as American TV contains themes expressing how wonderful it is to own tons of stuff and promoting conspicuous consumption. It's not good, but you look for things that don't emphasize it, and to be honest, if it bothers you or causes you to stumble you probably shouldn't be watching. As for wanting an entirely clean series, there are some out there, but honestly, how many perfectly clean shows are there in this world period? Very very few, in my opinion, but I try to find things that are good and which don't pose a threat to my walk with Christ or my faith. If these things bother you then that's fine, but I simply do not agree, and I have not seen the huge anti-Christian trends you mention in anime. I've seen pagan and non-christian things, for sure, but I haven't seen the prevalence you are claiming.

[Animus Seed]

The problem is that jap. have a taste for business and people are WAY TOO INTERESTED in the occult (wasn't that agains Jesus teachings?) and thay're making proffit off selling their culture (some taoist and shintoist branches are filled with MAN's No.1 enemy ) and their relligion in the form of movies, books, anime, games, etc.

As a neo-Platonist, I hereby request that if you are going to claim that you're giving us a "more philosophical" approach to understanding anime, that you at least please spell correctly.

[eye776]

@Mr. SmartyPants: sorry to offend you. call me euro (or better, rom) if you want. I'm not a racist. Was in a hurry.I'm not BASHING shintoism or taoism or hinduism or buddhism or islam, or ... (put your relligion of choice here). I said some branches of them were a bit offending to me (their deities ARE depicted with horns and pointy tails so what shoul I call them)

@Radical Dreamer:

here's ur shots

http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01dm1.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02az8.jpg

Fine. whatever. I'll think of a better way to approach the subject next time.

[Radical Dreamer]

Yes, red, green, and blue energy blasts. I'm not really catching your point here. O_o

At any rate, I'm interested in hearing what sort of series you're interested in; in other words, which series pass your bar for "clean"? Just curious.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Yes, red, green, and blue energy blasts. I'm not really catching your point here. O_o

Right... I don't exactly see how that's the mark of the devil.

[bigsleepj]

Red Green and blue are the primary colours of light. I don't think they are inherintly evil.

And now, to lapse into sarcasm (forgive me), if you look closely at a TV and PC screen you tend to notice little greed, red and blue dots. Does that make monitors evil?

I have nothing against nudity (partial and moderate) or some angry language, but thrashing Christianity and Catolicism has become quite common for recent anime

I'd rather say its a misapropriation of Christian imagery outside of its religious and cultural context than bashing / thrashing. Also what Puritan said is very correct (and Endo is a fine author!).

[mitsuki lover]

The only thing I am getting out of this thread is the sudden need to go out and get
Magic Knights Rayearth and Karin.
Then again I am the sort of person who needs to see what all the fuss is about.
As far as using the term 'Jap' that not only can be considered a slur but also a rather dated one at that.The only people I can think of it who still use it would be
WWII vets.

[eye776]

@bigsleepj: Geez! It's the shape that they compose just a bit later. Three swirling beams of RGB were a logo of a satanic group somewhere in the 90's.
(or something like that)

@mitsuki lover:
No man, they were freshest in my memory (as in I saw them THIS year).

[Nate]

As far as "destroying the world," the only thing I can think of is that
[SPOILER=Ending of MKR]Emeraude is the Pillar of Cephiro, and Cephiro cannot stand without the pillar. I would then agree with the assumption that they destroyed the world; however, this ignores two facts. First, Cephiro is a country, not the entire world. Second, in the sequel series, MKR II, the storyline revolves around the Magic Knights finding a new Pillar for Cephiro to save it from being invaded. So the "destroying the world" thing doesn't hold water.[/SPOILER]
As far as the attack, the mark of the beast is as follows:

16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. - Revelation 13:16

The spells in question were hardly a mark on the forehead/hand. The spell did come from their hand, but that's as ridiculous as saying me shooting a gun in my right hand is the mark of the beast. Second, at no point were they required to present that mark to buy or sell anything. So it cannot be the mark of the beast.

For the symbol thing, just because some other group uses it doesn't mean use of that symbol has the same meaning. For example, there's a lot of Christian crosses in anime. When the cross is used, is it Christian in meaning? No, they use it because it looks foreign and cool to them, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

So even IF the spell looks like a symbol used by a satanic group, it was probably coincidence, first of all, and second it wasn't used in a satanic way, so it's hardly satanic in nature.

But whatever. I find it hard to take the creator of this thread seriously, I suspect them a troll toying with us like so many have done before.

[Radical Dreamer]

For the symbol thing, just because some other group uses it doesn't mean use of that symbol has the same meaning. For example, there's a lot of Christian crosses in anime. When the cross is used, is it Christian in meaning? No, they use it because it looks foreign and cool to them, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

I agree. Oftentimes, you'll see people wearing crosses. Does that mean they're Christians? Probably not. Does it mean they're trying to mock Christianity as a whole? Again, probably not. It's the same over here in America. Lots of people wear the yin-yang symbol on necklaces, clothing, and other things. Are they mocking the faith that the yin-yang symbolizes? No. They wear stuff like that because, as Nate said, it's "foreign and cool".

[RedMage]

But whatever. I find it hard to take the creator of this thread seriously, I suspect them a troll toying with us like so many have done before.

I'm afraid I am inclined to concur.

[Angel37]

I'm afraid I am inclined to concur.

Summon the mods! *rings a bell*

[Mithrandir]

Regardless of how things go here, I think we'll call this thread "done."