Cut veggietales on NBC

[creed4]

I was just reading an article on http://www.afr.net about Veggietale having to cut some of their content to be shown on NBC, I was wondering what yalls thoughts on this was.



I personally think it bad that NBC is doing this, but the message is still getting out, And the videos are still uncut so It's hard to judge.

[mitsuki lover]

Personally I don't like Veggitales,so it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

[Kawaiikneko]

Well.... if these cut episodes introduce kids to the series and they get their parents to buy them the dvds then I think this is a good step.

On the other hand I could go into how weird it is to see freedom of speech limited in such a way. Just because it's Christian, it's okay to censor it? If they tried that for any other religion they could get sued.. Faulty reasoning, I think. I guess it's just because our culture's history is so seeped in Christianity that they see it as okay. The same thing happens with prayer in schools, but that's another topic entirely.

Weird reasoning aside, I think this a good step for veggietales =] I used to watch them all the time!

[oro!]

I hate that people always discriminate Christians like that. If it was a Hindu show, they would NOT edit out the Vedas or anything like that, because NBC would want to be seen as tolerant. It's hypocrasy to make Christians be "tolerant" to other religions, but not let us show what we really believe.
Should Big Idea agree to this, though? It is obviously stated in scripture that anyone who is a follower of Christ will be persecuted in some form. The question is, how do we speak the truth in love, while standing for our beliefs?
Did God as Jesus set out to make better-acting people, or to transform us? I am scared that people will be like the Mormons, who keep a lot of good laws without having any truth in it.

[Radical Dreamer]

The question is, how do we speak the truth in love, while standing for our beliefs?

ROFL, Big Idea should be standing for their beliefs; after all, they DID write a song for standing up for what you believe in (belie~ve in, belie~ve in, God, *He's the one who'll back you up!* will stand with you~! XD) in the Rack, Shack, and Benny video. NBC apparently has real issues with the whole Christianity thing. They didn't allow any of their hosts to say "Christmas" during this past Christmas, for fear of offending someone of a different religion. I totally agree on the whole hypocrisy thing on their part, though. Either way, as annoying and wrong as it is for NBC to do that, it's good that Veggie Tales is getting this kind of publicity. God can use all things for good, and this is probably one of those things.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

...well, that's just...stupid. ^^;

It's weird, it seems like these days people will edit out any reference to Christianty, either because they'd think it'd offend us (crosses in anime) or because they think it'd offend others....

[Scarecrow]

[quote="Radical Dreamer"]ROFL, Big Idea should be standing for their beliefs]

Actually, Big Ideas is no longer run by the same people. Big Ideas went bankrupt a couple years ago and I think the people in controll of it now aren't even Christians. The only Veggie tales are even coming to TV is because TV stations are now REQUIRED to have like so many hours of "educational TV"... NBC wanted Veggie Tales but remove all religious content to make just a fun "educational" show.

At first they were only supposed to remove the bible verse at the end but then later they decided they wanted ALL the religious content out (I guess they sat down and actually watched em and saw how Christian they were)

Anyway, I don't really care... if kids want to buy em, the uncut versions are still in stores yea....

[GhostontheNet]

What? This is an incredibly horrible perversion, and shows just what our culture's supposed "religious tolerance" turns out to be - namely putting a muffler on all religious expression so that people know absolutely nothing about what any religion whatsoever believes, so that they can live as selfish overconsumptive parasites feeding on whatever useless consumer products or consumer ideologies they feel like advertising in their programing or commercials. So we want to be a nation of religious tolerance? Play more religious programming! Don't stop until Americans can tell me about both "Atonement" and "Sunyata". It sure beats Desperate Housewives! May God forgive them of the arrogance of thinking they can simply drop the core of the entire show's religious core and for what they have done to our country, indeed to our world.

Edit: I see that I have been too harsh, as the Bible stories remain intact, even if the commentaries have been snipped

[beau99]

I saw an episode. They're hardly edited at all.

Also, NBC edits all religious programming. Not just Christian.

[Nate]

The same thing happens with prayer in schools, but that's another topic entirely.

I just wanted to say, this is completely different from prayer in schools, because NBC is not a government affiliated station. Separation of church and state clearly states the government is not to establish religion, so a public school holding a prayer would be an obvious violation of that, as they are a government institution.

NBC doing this is not the same, they are an independent company, which means they could have left the content in if they so chose to. The fact that they did not shows they were trying to avoid nasty letters from non-Christians.

[beau99]

NBC doing this is not the same, they are an independent company, which means they could have left the content in if they so chose to. The fact that they did not shows they were trying to avoid nasty letters from non-Christians.

Since they're a broadcast network, they also have to abide by FCC rules. One of the rules involves religious-based programming.

[Nate]

Oh wait, yeah, whoops, forgot about that. My bad.

[Tenshi no Ai]

The way I see it is that if the show offends someone, don't watch it! Well, in this case it would be really GOOD if people do (that is, if they are un-educated with Bible stories and morals and all). But know what I mean? And yeah alot of other bad shows on TV that, well, even say movies when they are edited for any content at all, it's STILL pretty bad. Although it DOES vary on channel to channel. But with the religious equality thing... :/

[beau99]

I still see it as no big deal.

[GhostontheNet]

I saw an episode. They're hardly edited at all.

Also, NBC edits all religious programming. Not just Christian.

Yeah, but I don't think equal opportunity censorship counts as a very high ideal, as my original ranting alluded to in mentioning major technical terms key to Christianity or Buddhism. It is snips of these sorts that deprive the equation of the "so what?" factor.

Since they're a broadcast network, they also have to abide by FCC rules. One of the rules involves religious-based programming.

Woah, the FCC hasn't yet wiped out the constitutionally mandated rights of free speech and for the State to have no right to interfere with the free practice of religion, which would include mainstream networks broadcasting unfettered religious content if they wish to.

[rocklobster]

Woah, the FCC hasn't yet wiped out the constitutionally mandated rights of free speech and for the State to have no right to interfere with the free practice of religion, which would include mainstream networks broadcasting unfettered religious content if they wish to.

If they had, EWTN (a Catholic-run cable channel) or TBN would no longer be airing.

[Kawaiikneko]

I just wanted to say, this is completely different from prayer in schools, because NBC is not a government affiliated station. Separation of church and state clearly states the government is not to establish religion, so a public school holding a prayer would be an obvious violation of that, as they are a government institution.

NBC doing this is not the same, they are an independent company, which means they could have left the content in if they so chose to. The fact that they did not shows they were trying to avoid nasty letters from non-Christians.

I was merely referring to the hipocrisy in some schools concerning religions, not the act of the school's performing the prayers. For example, I know of a school that didn't allow it's students to pray outloud at all (even in an unofficial sort of before lunch prayer), but allowed Islamic students to go out during the day to do their 5 pillars. I understand the whole government institution sort of thing.

If we really want to go into this I could quote the supposed "seperation of church and state" part of the bill of rights and you could see that the way we practice it now is not in there at all.

[quote]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof]

What it warns against is the government setting up a "state religion", not outlawing all religious content in a government institution. That idea is more taken from an unofficial letter written by John Adams to a group of concerned Christians who worried the government would limit their religious freedom. There's a difference.

If this post is too political I'll gladly edit it. I'm also WAY off topic.

[dyzzispell]

What it warns against is the government setting up a "state religion", not outlawing all religious content in a government institution. That idea is more taken from an unofficial letter written by John Adams to a group of concerned Christians who worried the government would limit their religious freedom. There's a difference.

I was just about to say that. The law was set up to protect religion from government, not government from religion, as it is today.
However, what bothers me is that they continue to cut out God and prayer and the Bible, and then whine and complain, saying "where was God" when things like 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina happen. If they want God to get out of their way so bad, then they will lose his protection, too. I don't know what we as a country expect anymore. You tell him to leave, and he will.
Again, way off topic.
But besides that, the only reason this editing thing would bother me, is if I saw conclusive proof on that station, that they are partial to editing Christian references, and very much tolerant of other religions. It's a double standard and doesn't set a very good example of "tolerance".

[beau99]

If they had, EWTN (a Catholic-run cable channel) or TBN would no longer be airing.

That's the thing.

They're cable networks, not broadcast networks. Cable networks aren't controlled by FCC sanctions. If they were, MTV and Comedy Central would be off the air.

[Heart of Sword]

It might be hypocrisy, but hey... parents will want to buy the DVDs. The message will still get out. I *want* television (unless it's a religious channel) to edit religion out of kid shows. Most of you would be upset if the Sesame Street characters went to worship at a mosque, right? It's best to edit out all religious stuff, Christian or not, in children's shows shown on TV. That way, at least we don't have to worry about the kids hearing false teaching.

[mitsuki lover]

The reason for the First Amendment is because in the 18th century before the Colonies became States each section had it's own Established Church that even non-members had to pay public tax to help support.For example if you were either
a Presbyterian or Baptist and lived in Virginia you would still have to pay to support the Anglican church.In New England it was the Congregational Church that was the Established Church.This was common also in Europe where religious dissidents would be taxed to help support the State Church no matter what it was.
Actually the Congregational Church remained the Established Church in,I believe,
Massachuetts up until around 1820 when it was the last of the Established Churches to be dis-stablished.

[Radical Dreamer]

The reason for the First Amendment is because in the 18th century before the Colonies became States each section had it's own Established Church that even non-members had to pay public tax to help support.For example if you were either
a Presbyterian or Baptist and lived in Virginia you would still have to pay to support the Anglican church.In New England it was the Congregational Church that was the Established Church.This was common also in Europe where religious dissidents would be taxed to help support the State Church no matter what it was.
Actually the Congregational Church remained the Established Church in,I believe,
Massachuetts up until around 1820 when it was the last of the Established Churches to be dis-stablished.

Uhh...Yay for spontaneous history lessons...? o_O


Anyways, on the one hand, HOS, I agree with you. On the other hand, I think the main reason why this is such a big deal is because Veggie Tales began off-air, so everyone already sort of knows that it's a Christian production. If it were like Sesame Street, and was more of a TV-only show, then no one would really know that it was Christian beforehand, so it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Umm...I hope that made sense. XD;

[Heart of Sword]

That was random... I think.

Yeah, I understand that, but if you look at the big picture, it's not so bad.

[GhostontheNet]

That's the thing.

They're cable networks, not broadcast networks. Cable networks aren't controlled by FCC sanctions. If they were, MTV and Comedy Central would be off the air.

In light of the blatant unconstitutionality of such sanctions, the fact that I recieve PAX on Network TV out here, you're going to need to cite which laws you refer to.

[TallasLint]

Even PBS edits out christian references from some shows. Jay Jay the Jet Plane definitely has christian morals and such, and I was like "wow, this is a nice 'teach kids morals' show, and then I saw it at my church library, and I was like, ...huh...and I watched it, and PBS had edited out mention of god. I had no Idea the show was christian at all. But I think Veggietales on public television might be a good thing, even edited. It would still have the morals. I'd rather have a kid watch veggie tales without the bible verse at the end, than Spongebob any day. Veggie tales would still have the humor and morals, and people might buy the tapes or dvd's.

I want to know what they'll do with episodes like Esther, and Rack Shack and Benny, though.

[creed4]

It's sad that our culture has gone so far, I hope that Christians start doing more high quality brodcasting and give an alternitve to other media outlets

[Nate]

It's best to edit out all religious stuff, Christian or not, in children's shows shown on TV. That way, at least we don't have to worry about the kids hearing false teaching.

Heart of Sword, I could hug you! In fact, I think I will.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking too. If there was a cartoon about how Hinduism was awesome and everyone should be a Hindu, would we as Christians want our kids to watch that? Wouldn't we want the station to kinda downplay the Hindu stuff and just have it be a regular cartoon? Most of us here would probably say yes, so isn't it kinda hypocritical to complain about them editing Christian references out of stuff if we would want Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist stuff edited out?

Just a little something to think about. ^^

[GhostontheNet]

Heart of Sword, I could hug you! In fact, I think I will.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking too. If there was a cartoon about how Hinduism was awesome and everyone should be a Hindu, would we as Christians want our kids to watch that? Wouldn't we want the station to kinda downplay the Hindu stuff and just have it be a regular cartoon? Most of us here would probably say yes, so isn't it kinda hypocritical to complain about them editing Christian references out of stuff if we would want Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist stuff edited out?

Just a little something to think about. ^^

Complete and utter nonsense. As I consider it, almost any religious perspective is better than this secular materialistic crypto-nihilist garbage they peddle on the networks. I wanna see more of Yeshua, Buddha, Muhammed, and the Brahman, and less Worship My American Idol Because Celebrities are Our Only Gods, less Decadent Housewives, less Who Wants to Sell Their Soul and Work as a High-up in a Megacorp. I want to have children I can engage in decent intelligent conversations about the concepts of substitutionary atonement in Christianity and sunyaya and the subtle mind in Buddhism. Most of the reason 'Christian America' is so spiritually impoverished is that we think religious tolerance consists of a choking stranglehood on any expression of religion having any relevence to real life, much less hearing evidence that any of it is actually true and that man need not live on bread alone.

[Authority3000]

Phil Vischer's response to criticism resulting from the edits.

Actually, Big Ideas is no longer run by the same people. Big Ideas went bankrupt a couple years ago and I think the people in controll of it now aren't even Christians. [...]

Phil Vischer and several of the other original Big Idea members are still in charge of creating and redistrubuting Veggietales, they're just not in charge of Big Idea Productions (i.e. the company itself) anymore. Big Idea's staff and management didn't really change much when they went bankrupt and were purchased. They simply have to answer to Classic Media, now.

[beau99]

In light of the blatant unconstitutionality of such sanctions, the fact that I recieve PAX on Network TV out here, you're going to need to cite which laws you refer to.

What in the world are you talking about?

PAX (now i NETWORK) is a cable network. They're not subject to any sanctioning.