V for Vendetta

[uc pseudonym]

First, off topic things: Though I don't credit the directors with it, I have always thought the Matrix was a good movie. But unlike many people, I didn't hate the sequels so much. I think the set of ideas behind the Architect scene was a good development (though not one that people liked, because it took the movies further from a type of romanticism). Impact Alberto, I liked your reference to nonsensical psychobabble - that's a good way to characterize most of the Oracle's dialogue.

Now, as for the movie, I had no intention of seeing it (because I barely see movies anyway). After hearing about the premise and its origins in the graphic novel, however, I became slightly more curious. There's a small chance I will see it, depending in part upon the reactions in this thread, so review once you've seen it.

[Bobtheduck]

Hmm... Everytime this movie is mentioned, outside of CAA anyhow, I hear it in reference to controversial political commentary... I'm sorta tired of that, actually... Even if it was a cool comic book movie, there is so much of this, they think they're making some sort of statement, but it's like 90% of hollywood is making the same statement, so how original can that be?

I know the comics are old, so the original story can't really be a commentary on current politics, but they say they tried extra hard to make a statement with the material... It's not even interesting anymore...

[Stephen]

Or it could just be, that everyone is so obsessed over politics anymore...that nothing can be made that does not have this sort of things said. I remember dolts said the same things about episode 3. Whatever happend to movies being movies. Being 3 hours of fun...and not being some super agenda on the part of the right/left. I seriously want to slap people that run around looking for hidden political undertones to all modern movies. Tell them to go watch public television Bob.

[Maledicte]

I saw it.

As stated earlier, it's a very political movie. But then, the comic is a very political comic, and it was written in the eighties. So when it comes to comparison with the book, it succeeded very well. The story was streamlined from the comic, but that's only to be expected--it filled in the story behind the Larkhill experiments, although it was a little muddily done in my opinion.

All the characters were acted very well, from the innocent Evey to the dogged Finch, from the unrelenting Chancellor to the psychotic, magnetic, faceless V. Again, the characters, as well as the relationships of some, were changed from the comic, but the resulting concoction was believable enough to allow it to stand on its own.

The oppression of Muslims and gays is also part of the book, but the movie dwelled a little too much on Valerie. It seemed to detract from the actual scene at hand, but then, since I already knew the story that also could have been why.

The final fight scene was kind of lame in my opinion, as it was done entirely in slow motion. I felt it ruined the impact.

The 1812 overture, however, was the very best part, as I'm sure a lot of viewers will agree.

[White]

Kind of Sad, The Reviews Are Saying This Movie Isn't All That

Man and I Was Looking Forward To It, Guess I Could Wait Til It Comes Out On DVD

Your Bro In Christ,

White

[GrubbTheFragger]

i think i am still gonna see it when it goes to the cheap seats

[Puritan]

I saw it last night. I think it was a good action film and worth seeing, although I am glad I went to the campus discount theater rather than a full-price theater. The action sequences and storyline are good (SirThinks2Much is definitely right about the 1812 overture being the best part of the film), but there is a lot of political (and some religious) content which might turn some people off. Overall it was a fun film and enjoyed seeing it, although I doubt I would buy a copy.

[uc pseudonym]

The final fight scene was kind of lame in my opinion, as it was done entirely in slow motion. I felt it ruined the impact.

Now that is an interesting cinematic choice. Having an entire fight in slow motion almost strikes me as counterproductive, but I shouldn't judge when I haven't seen it. Is it just like a normal fight, but slower, or are there more complicated things going on? Also, what music did they use for it? That could help the scene or simply be rather incongruous.

[GhostontheNet]

Or it could just be, that everyone is so obsessed over politics anymore...that nothing can be made that does not have this sort of things said. I remember dolts said the same things about episode 3. Whatever happend to movies being movies. Being 3 hours of fun...and not being some super agenda on the part of the right/left. I seriously want to slap people that run around looking for hidden political undertones to all modern movies. Tell them to go watch public television Bob.

Nonsense, there was no such time. If you doubt this, look to films like Charlie Chaplin's silent film Modern Times or the original film Metropolis, or for that matter all the war-time propoganda films. The making of a good story requires some level of political, moral, and often spiritual commentary to allow for its events and actions to have a meta-meaning beyond mere meaningless happenings. If such commentary conforms with agendas held by the political left or political right, as well as the also-wide amount of non-of-the-above political agendas held by the film makers, it is because the filmmakers wish to transfer a piece of the narrative of their works into the narratives of the lives of the audience, so that the story becomes their own.

[supa dupa ninja]

Scene it today. Nerded out aaaaaaaall the way through.

I'm actually suprised no one had a negative opinion (Motive-wise) about this movie, being a conservative site like this.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

after reading some reviews on rottentomatoes.com. This has caught my attention. I hope I'll beable to watch it someday

[shooraijin]

Kind of Sad, The Reviews Are Saying This Movie Isn't All That

Actually, Ebert and Roeper gave it two thumbs up, and they're usually pretty vicious to what they disdainfully call "comic book movies." They're hardly bastions of cinematic criticism, but most of the reviewers I've read were also generally complementary (though, to be sure, most weren't shouting "0MG 05C4R!!!1!" either).

[Stephen]

Nonsense, there was no such time. If you doubt this, look to films like Charlie Chaplin's silent film Modern Times or the original film Metropolis, or for that matter all the war-time propoganda films. The making of a good story requires some level of political, moral, and often spiritual commentary to allow for its events and actions to have a meta-meaning beyond mere meaningless happenings. If such commentary conforms with agendas held by the political left or political right, as well as the also-wide amount of non-of-the-above political agendas held by the film makers, it is because the filmmakers wish to transfer a piece of the narrative of their works into the narratives of the lives of the audience, so that the story becomes their own.

For the most part, most films that are made people blow way out of context. Its based mainly on the times. You could make 50 "Fight the man" style movies during peace times, and nobody says a word. You make one today, and of course it means the directors hate George Bush. If you want to look under every rock for a political agenda, you go right ahead. If you don't mind me, I will be enjoying films.

[GhostontheNet]

For the most part, most films that are made people blow way out of context. Its based mainly on the times. You could make 50 "Fight the man" style movies during peace times, and nobody says a word. You make one today, and of course it means the directors hate George Bush. If you want to look under every rock for a political agenda, you go right ahead. If you don't mind me, I will be enjoying films.

Meanwhile I will enjoy both films and political commentary. Even "fight the man" movies are themselves contingency political commentary concerning the opposition against others who bring ill, oftentimes including a list of methods which are acceptable and unacceptable to the hero. The fusion of all these stories together are the stuff minds are made of when making decisions. To be sure, George Bush is becoming an increasingly unpopular politician and the entire aftermath of all that has happened since 9/11 has raised many questions which are ripe pickings for the storytellers of our society to explore the meanings of.

[Maledicte]

Is it just like a normal fight, but slower, or are there more complicated things going on? Also, what music did they use for it? That could help the scene or simply be rather incongruous.

It seemed pretty run-of-the-mill to me, but I suppose it can be excused because V was dealing out the slaughter in the time it took the bad guys to reload their guns. So I guess it warranted slow motion. But the opening fight scene was at a normal speed, and it seemed a bit off to me. They could have at least put a bit of slow motion into the opening fight to give it some balance. But then it would have lessened the credibility of the movie from the outset, making it look like a Matrix clone...

Gee, I'm glad I'm not the director.

Oh, and and while it seems the movie was made just for the times, let me remind that the original novel was made for ITS time, which was in the early 80's, and the core elements of the story and view were kept intact. If people draw so many references to modern events from it, it only goes to show that a story written over twenty years ago has resonance even now.

It doesn't have to even be compared to modern times--the Chancellor could draw parallels to, say, Hitler.

[shooraijin]

Not directed to anyone in particular, but I think we've gone about as far as we can reasonably go with the political angle, so let's stick to other aspects of the film for further discussion.

[Technomancer]

i've seen the movie, and thought it was quite good, if not exactly subtle. Still, it has a good deal more depth than many popular films, at least if you follow any of the film's more expository moments.

[DragonSlayer]

Eh. I have heard all the bashing on the Matrix films a hundred other times. There are fans, then there are the people who run around saying they stole everything. Newsflash. Have you ever written a book, or a song..or a poem before? Somtimes you write somthing...totaly from your heart...and when your done...you find someone else has done somthing very similar. It happens. Oh well.

This is true, It also happens(more often than you'd think) that somone will write somthing compeltly original and unheard of to them and sometime later or even the enxt day they'll see a story that is nearly exact but that you've never heard of.

In my case a few years before the matrix came out I had written a Fantasy genre story about a boy who had been transported into a dreamworld where superhuman things were possible. I based a book rpg off of that story and when the Matrix came out people started calling it a rip off. So it happens.

But I have to disagree about the matrix ripping off darkcity since the filming began in 1995(Or the project did)

[Stephen]

Saw the movie tonight. Loved it. I really don't know why people ragged on it. I felt it was very well filmed, and well acted. I hope to see it again before its out of theaters. This will be a dvd buy for sure.

[GrubbTheFragger]

the movie ruled it was like ark said very well filmed and acted there were somethings that were not needed but nothing to over the top and nasty

[Stephen]

What are you talking about? The language? I guess I can understand that. But as far as violence or subject matter...I thought it was all pretty integral to the story.

[Mangafanatic]

Being the huge fan of the Matrix that I am, I was very excited about this movie. Despite my Aunt's suggestion that I not see this movie (based on a Christian magazine's review), I, Yumie, and our cousin all went to see the movie. Overall, I came away from the theater feeling sour. First and foremost, this feeling comes from the overtly positive homosexual plot element. In the movie, no main character was innocent. The government was manipulating their citizens. V is sacrificing people for the sake of his own gain Ex: [spoiler](consider the security guards who got mowed down when he dressed everyone up as himself.)[/spoiler] Evey is more blameless than most of the characters, but even she seems to be looking out only for herself for the much of the film. The only characters who seem truly innocent is the lesbian girl in the flash back. Amid the appropriately dark color scheme in the film, we have a lesbian love story shot against wild flower covered fields and freshly laundered sheets. That much I simply could not accept.


Additionally, the feeling that the film was pushing a realitivist mind set annoyed me to no end. Who was truly good in this film? Who could you cheer for?

[GrubbTheFragger]

nah ark i was talking about the whole when evey is held captive and she gets the story of the chick *shudders* also the scene at the beginning it wasn't that bad in visual (cuz it didn't go to far) but the dialoge was really quiet nasty and also the preist was nasty but none of it was too too bad it was very restrained since they coulda gone much further that being said i did love the movie cuz the plot was very well done .

:EDIT:

First and foremost, this feeling comes from the overtly positive homosexual plot element.

that what ot was referring to about the story of the girl btw

[Stephen]

The homosexual thing really did not bother me. Because it was really not the point. The point was, the Goverment was telling people what was right and wrong. They chose to use homosexuals as the example...but really, it could work for any group. Religions, etc. As far as cheering for characters? I felt V was a hero. I also felt his actions were justified. *laughs* Flame away.

[uc pseudonym]

Not to be a cynic, but... never mind the rhetoric; no point denying this is cynical.

V is sacrificing people for the sake of his own gain Ex: (and subsequent example)

I'm not familiar with the circumstances in the movie, obviously. But the first thing your spoiler reminded me of was the scene in which Neo kills a number of security guards in order to rescue Morpheus. Similar? Dissimilar?

Additionally, the feeling that the film was pushing a realitivist mind set annoyed me to no end. Who was truly good in this film? Who could you cheer for?

Isn't it possible that in many conflicts there is no one that a Christian should cheer for? In a society that seems determined to find someone on which to put a white hat, I think this message isn't wholly unnecessary. Note that I'm not really talking about the movie in saying that - I have no idea if I would approve of V's actions.

[Mangafanatic]

I'm not familiar with the circumstances in the movie, obviously. But the first thing your spoiler reminded me of was the scene in which Neo kills a number of security guards in order to rescue Morpheus. Similar? Dissimilar?

A very legitimate point. I think the differentiation in my mind lies the specifics of the situation. In V for Vendetta [spoiler]V basically breaks into a government broadcasting facility, broadcasts a message saying, among other things, that he's going to blow up parliament on the fifth of November. However, as you might imagine, after making a broadcast FROM a government building on the nation's network, every government agency is trying to get at V. So, after instigating this action on his own (breaking into the building and hacking into the network feed), he has to get himself out. So he dresses up all these security guards in his costume and gets more than one of them shot in the insuing confusion, during which he makes his escape.

To me, the difference, if there is one (which one might argue there isn't), is that in the Matrix, Morpheus has been captured-- an act of hostility. These people are basically batteries to begin with, and they're working in a facility which is being used by the obvious enemy. Just a thought. Still, I can't say that it definitely makes the situation a different.[/spoiler]

Thanks for bringing that up, UC. I should give that some thought.

[Mangafanatic]

Arg, this was supposed to be Yumie, go on to the next post. . .

[Yumie]

OK, here's what the post above was supposed to be:

The homosexual thing really did not bother me. Because it was really not the point. The point was, the Goverment was telling people what was right and wrong. They chose to use homosexuals as the example...but really, it could work for any group. Religions, etc. As far as cheering for characters? I felt V was a hero. I also felt his actions were justified. *laughs* Flame away.

See, the thing with me was that it didn't seem as though they just randomly picked homosexuals out of all the groups they could have picked. It seemed rather intentional, simply because it wasn't only the lesbians in the film, it was also the guy. . . I think his name was Gordon? The fact that of all the people in the whole film, the only people who were TRULY innocent were people who were gay. Sure, you could say that V's overall plan would probably be best for the people, but from things he said, it sounded more as though he was doing it simply for revenge than for any other purpose. Evey was just kind of the floater, she never really took a stand until the end, so throughout the movie you never really can know what to hope for from her (sometimes she tries to turn V in, sometimes she tries to help him-- at best, she's completely confused.) But then, there are the homosexuals. Purely from an artistic perspective, did it strike you at all how the whole film is in such a dark and dreary setting, and then the lesbian scenes come along, and every bit of them are sun-shiney and bright and happy? Fields of flowers, freshly laundered sheets billowing in the wind, sunlight streaming through the classroom windows-- it was basically evil presented on a beautiful flowering platter, and the contrast is very striking. It makes you feel good during those scenes, and I can imagine that for a person who doesn't have strong beliefs one way or the other, it could do quite a job on them subliminally. So that bothered me. And perhaps if there had been a great theme at the end of the movie, I could at least take the good in it and go forward from there. But Osaka, and my cousin (who is quite intelligent), and myself had to spend five minutes putting our finger on what the theme of the movie was, because it was so hidden, and finally what we came away with was this: "It doesn't matter what you believe in, as long as you believe in it hard enough and you fight for it, then it's right." Not exactly a message I condone. So that was just how I felt after I saw it, but if you thought there was a different message to the movie, I'd be glad to hear it. It was difficult enough to determine that we could have gotten it wrong.

[Stephen]

I will refrain from going any further on my opinion on this. You will not see my point, so there is no real point in wasting my time. I hope everyone checks the film out, and decides for themself what the real point of the movie is.

[ShiroiHikari]

I don't think that was the theme of the movie at all. I think the movie had several different themes in it, one of which being the line about people and government. It's true...the government SHOULD fear its people.

Another big one was justice. There was no justice under the current regime, so V took matters into his own hands, to bring justice upon the people that had wronged not just himself, but hundreds of thousands of others.

And it wasn't just the gays that were persecuted...it was also blacks and Muslims. I think they chose the lesbian story to be in the spotlight because it carries more shock value. Minorities and religion have always been oppressed at one point or another. Oppressing two people who just wanted to live their lives together? That's never really happened before.

They used the bright colors and images not to glorify the lifestyle, but to illustrate that the world back then was a completely different place.

And yeah, a few people died at V's hand, but nobody said he was supposed to be the stereotypical hero or the "good" guy. This story was supposed to be kind of realistic and in the real world, nobody's all good or all bad.