SC In Christain works?

[Naga Kisaki]

Where do you stand on SC in manga? Say, you know of a specific christain writer, and there is sexual content (But not a lot of detail, definitly not hentai.) in a few of his works, does that mean that the Manga author isn't a good christain?

[Rexman64]

So long as it's not pointless fanservice and nudity, sexual content can be important to tell a story. As long as there is some restraint in what is shown, I don't see a problem, myself.

[Debitt]

Before passing any judgement I would think about the reason the sexual content is there - is it just for the sake of sex? Does it play a role in the plot or develop character? What message is it sending about sex? If actual "procreation" is involved, is it between a husband and wife? You can't make a sweeping judgement on sex, or a person's spirituality when you just say "sexual content".

I also don't think it's our place to pass judgement on a writer's spiritual life simply based on what's in their work. Yes, crude content from a Christian author would definitely leave an impression on me, but I won't read their work anymore and leave the judgement part up to God.

[Nate]

It depends on how the content is shown. If it shows two people not married to each other having sex in a positive light, I'd say that it is bad. If it's two married people and nothing is shown but rather implied, I'd say that's acceptable. If it shows two people not married to each other having sex in a negative light, then I'd say that's acceptable too (as long as nothing was relaly shown).

[Naga Kisaki]

In what I read, A villain seduced another character.

[Joshua Christopher]

I don't get why people seem to have such little problems with graphic violence, but any sex is taboo.

I, myself, really don't care that much. I'm not one who deals with lust (I'm a sloth/pride kinda guy : P).

Basically, no, sexual content isn't a big deal to me.

[Nate]

In what I read, A villain seduced another character.

Villains do evil things, so I'd say that's perfectly within the character of a villain and is acceptable.

[Maledicte]

In what I read, A villain seduced another character.

I don't think that would be necessarily bad, because it's the villain, right? Villains do bad things, or good things in the wrong way--that's why they're villains. Think for a moment--if the scene had been cut, or something else have happened, would it have had the same impact? Would you hate the villain more? Or even, pity him more? Would he be harder for the hero to overcome, or would he just be a thin excuse of a baddie for the hero to triumph over?

If anything, a story can reflect both reality and the author's morals, even if the two conflict. Bad things can happen or be done, but what are the consequences of those actions? I'm reminded of an episode of Gargoyles when one of the characters accidentally shot a friend of his while playing with her gun, and blood was shown. Now some people could have said "Oh we can't have blood, this is a kid's show", but it was left in, and for good reason--blood comes out when people get shot. Furthermore, if the blood was left out, the scene would lose its impact--why's she in the hospital when she barely got hurt? And besides, keeping it gave real consequences to a real situation, thus stressing that people--kids and adults alike--shouldn't play with guns.

Christian authors have a lot of responsibility--to tell a good story and to provide moral commentary, provoke thinking and point to the One behind it all. They are not mutually exclusive, nor does the greater size of one diminish the importance of the other.

[Debitt]

If anything, a story can reflect both reality and the author's morals, even if the two conflict. [....] Christian authors have a lot of responsibility--to tell a good story and to provide moral commentary, provoke thinking and point to the One behind it all. They are not mutually exclusive, nor does the greater size of one diminish the importance of the other.

*high fives* ^^ Better than I could have said. <3 Right on.

[tripperdan99]

The usage of SC, if any is used, should be a tool in the plot. i.e. evil dude does something that makes us wish him great harm. The issue could also be the initial attaction and not so much fanfare of character development.

One person posting above seems desensitized to violence and sex (which many are) but that does't change the core principle of sex. And why would being able to handle violence relate to thinking more open sex is just natural? And should we have more SC & violence because it's no big deal?

Again, can SC usage add to the message that the author wishes to convey or is it simply for tease and fanservice? The latter is the easiest.

Sort of reminds me of what Bill Cosby talked about one time, he said (paraphased) that anyone can get on stage and spew obscenities and use shock as humor. The Real skill is when you can communicate humor effectively without that.

I would say that anyone can use violence and SC, heck look most all of anime. But real skill comes in conveying a message effectively where SC (and violence) reveals much more than it's "shock value"

td99

[Joshua Christopher]

One person posting above seems desensitized to violence and sex (which many are) but that does't change the core principle of sex. And why would being able to handle violence relate to thinking more open sex is just natural? And should we have more SC & violence because it's no big deal?

I think you misunderstood what I meant.

What I'm saying is that, sin, in God's eyes, is just as bad as any other sin. It's hypocritical to make a big deal out of sexual content, and not graphic violence. I don't think either of these are "okay" or "acceptable", but I don't especially worry too much, since I can't say I've had any "problems" with lust or such things, nor rage.

All I'm trying to say is that essentially it's still sin, and it's still wrong regardless of it being lying, graphic violence, or sex. I don't seek out, nor particularly watch anything very graphic, but I think there are other things that we need to be concerned with. Basically, if it bothers you, ignore it.

[tripperdan99]

Okie Dokie, that's cool

but even if the point is not relevant to your post (and I apologize for misunderstanding) it is relevant to society.

And you used the correct word that no one likes "SIN"

Reminds me of shirt I got from a Mylon concert: Love God, Hate Sin

shalom and sorry for the misunderstanding

td99

[Naga Kisaki]

Spoiler: In the book what was shown was some of a breast, but not the detailed part (though I'm not sure if the fact the villains face was covering it counts. All you saw was part of her breast and the back of his head. And her exspression, which said a lot.) and part of his posterior, but there legs were positioned so that nothing was visibl. Anytime one of them moved in a sexual way, only the shadow was shown on the wall, and ithe movement only lasted a few panels.[/

It did have a perpose. (It didn't make me feel sorry for the villain, as was suggested, it made me feel sorry for a character who wasn't even involved with the scene, since he was in love with the one being seduced!) and the villain managed to get information and trust fromthe woman, who was the protagonists sister. I was surprised at how gullible she was.

Alot of what you say makes sence, becausee a lot of the stories drama would be gone if it weren't for that scene and the complications that follow. Until around that point, the manga book was a lot on the comedic side.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Even though it was the villian, they can always show less. But still, you didn't see anything there.

About violence and SC... Humans just seem to be more prone to sexuall imorality.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

Well...even the Bible itself has sometimes has sex in it, so...when there for plot reasons, I don't mind it as much. I think it should be done as tastefully as possible, though, and certainly not used to glorify sexual immorality.

[EricTheFred]

Good lord, there is sexual content to some extent even in C.S. Lewis! Like it or not, it is part of human existence.
The fact is, many people make the mistake now of assuming that any item found in any show is automatically somehow "promoted" by that show. It doesn't have to be so, though.
Try this: just because there are smokers in a show, doesn't mean the show promotes smoking, does it? If all the "cool" or "good" people smoke, and none of the "uncool" do, then you have a case. Otherwise, it may just be a case of the writer trying to portray a reasonable facsimile of life.

[creed4]

Depend on how it delt with, If its just to shock it's not good. If its to teach a leason then okay

[Naga Kisaki]

See, THIS is why I ask these questions on this board!

From what I read, I think all in all, I'm not offended by wht I saw (Due to an unhealthy addiction I once had, I've seen much worse.)

Another spoiler: The woman's pregnant.


If that's not a plot-twist I don't know what is.

[Neko Niisan]

I thought it wise to intergect a common cultural clash that often occurs in manga over this subject, having grown up in the Philippines I have a very Asian mindset and so like to thing I have enough authority to talk about this:

In the West, people are raised with the concept that there is direct link between nudity and sex. This no fault as such, its just the way things are.

Yet is Asia, this firect distinction does not exist and although sex involves nudity, nudity does not necessarily imply sex.

Real Life Example:

Public Bathhouses are a common feature in Asia and are often visited by both genders and even same sex bath houses exist (although they are becoming less common due to the Western influence). If someone is taking a bath then it stands to reason that they would be naked as you don't usually bathe whilst dressed.

Manga/Anime Example:

In the manga 'Ghost in the Shell' by Masemune and in the film adaptaion by Oshii, there are instances of female nudity. This comes from the fact that the female lead, a mostly cyborg enhanced police officer, has the ability to fade into the backgroud using built in thermoptic camouflage. By asain thinking it thus stands to reason that she wuold need to strip down in order for it to take effect otherwise her suit would be seen moving around.

Although such things are kept from young audiences for good reason these to examples would not be seen to be illicet.

This is not to say that there is no such thing as explicet manga/anime. Far from it, some thing are down right disgusting. I am merely trying to point out a possible reasoning for why this may have occured.

This however a broad concept and I don't think you could ever know for sure without directly confronting the author on the matter and this may just be a load od driven as I've no idea who the author is.

To be honest I would continue to read as you see fit and keep an pen heart. If God has a problem with you reading this manga then he will have a way to let you know.

Well thats my take on things and if you've bothered to read this far then I commend you on your adamence. I not trying to say that the author was unconditionaly right, just throughing a thought into the areana.

[Neko Niisan]

Sorry to but in again but here is useful link to further the above point looking at Ranma 1/2.

<LINK>

[Hitokiri]

(Isn't a plan to "publicize" my manga but it illustrates the point.)

I am working on a series right now where the 2nd half, I portray both lead male and female characters naked. I felt, in order ro get into the nitty-gritty darkest portions of thier minds, I needed to expose not only their brains but how they were created. Now, it isn't detailed but nevertheless, they are naked and it's obvious. In this context, an dlike one poster said, nudity doesn't always nean explicit sexual content mentally. The human body is one the most beautiful form on the earth if you look at it as how God created us to be. In that aspect, nudity fails to be sexual but more of a art masterpiece created by God. (thought that doesn't justify looking at porno and saying "I am enjoying God's design" because porno is portraying the human body in a sinful manner).

Now, if the writer/illustrator portrays the characters engaging in direct, physical and possibly detailed sexual acts and calls himself/herself a Christian, you need to wary in choosing to believe him/her and then talk to the person. Because the orginal author's intent may be completely different from what you, as a reader, sees. In that case, though, the author should be informed that's how some people see it.

[Pan Chan]

I personaly am totaly aginst sc all the way.
I think you're right naga kisaki and I would never want to see any thing like that in a christian manga ever!
Sorry for the straight forwardness but morals matter.

[Neko Niisan]

I can honestly see your point and I agree that you should stand by you morals 100%, don't get me wrong. To paraphrase my last post I simply stated that in many Eastern cultures, sexual content and nudity as a fact of life and this should be considered when judging the authors use of it.

[Pan Chan]

I know but just because it is ok for a country's culture it dosn't mean it's right.
Sigh.... Nude is a sin it's called adultry and putting it in manga only makes people sin....
Remember Jesus said, if you look at a women in the wrong way you have already commited adultry in your heart.
(hug) I love you.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

The nude body is not a sin, but this fallen world has given it a sour image tainted with lust, not love between man and wife.

[Nate]

Nude is a sin it's called adultry

Oh? Since when? Give me a verse.

Nudity isn't a sin. Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden of Eden, or did you conveniently forget that verse? In case you did, allow me to refresh your memory.

The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame. - Genesis 2:25

W4J hit the nail on the head. The human body in a nude state is pure and wonderful. It is the curse of sin that has twisted it. The nude body itself is not a sin, but rather how we look at it.

[Puritan]

Very true, W4J, as Adam and Eve were in fact nude and it was not a sin. However, the nude human form is a temptation to lust for a large portion of the population and should be dealt with extremely carefully to avoid tempting people. In fact, sex is not a sin, although having sex outside marriage is a sin, and it shouldn't be treated as something sinful, but the portrayal of sex in Christian works must be handled carefully because it definately can tempt people to sin. So I guess the morality really depends on the sexual content as you must take caution to avoid tempting people to sin.

[Neko Niisan]

I know but just because it is ok for a country's culture it dosn't mean it's right.
Sigh.... Nude is a sin it's called adultry and putting it in manga only makes people sin....
Remember Jesus said, if you look at a women in the wrong way you have already commited adultry in your heart.
(hug) I love you.

To bounce of Puritan's and kaemmerite's thoughts. Nudity itself is not a sin, yet it can so easily become one through lust and a man sexual tendancies. Unfortunately this is one of the most 'grey' areas for Christian (at least in world little world) as context is a big factor in when the 'body beautiful' becomes 'naughty nude'.

Personally, from what Naga Kisaki has said then I would say that this instance would be largly acceptable. Things like Gantz and Violence Jack, then yeh, there is definatly something wrong with taking it that far.

P.S. Love you too! (Hugs Back)

[Hitokiri]

The nude body is not a sin

Thank you! Seriously, the nude human body is a work of God, in God's image. To say that the eccence of the body is sinful is basically marring God's orginal design. Because of sin, we tend to look at nakedness in a lustful light. I used to think that nakedness/nude was sinful but I took a Drawing class that incorporated nude models and I came to appreciate the human body in a artistic way. Look at the sculpture of David by Michelengelo. He's naked but it's a famous and beautiful art piece.

Anyways, I basically reiterated what I said in my last post haha.

[creed4]

Isaiah was comanded to walk naked for a time. Isaiah 20:1-3

Biblically time a person nakedness was ussally to show shame. Some examples after the Fall adam and Eve felt shame because they were nake. Noah just after the flood, and there are refences in prophecy about Israel nakedness being exposed.