Memoirs Of A Geisha(?)

[Shao Feng-Li]

Seing the preview in the theater for MoaG really sparked my couriosity... Just what is the movie about? And what is there to look out for? The movie being about a Geisha it's expected that there would be some mature content in it, but what kind of light do they put it all in?
Do they ware the kimonos left over right?

[Tenshi no Ai]

Knowing the movie's about geishas, and I'm pretty sure the site said it was rated R (at least in America, a possible PG-14 for Canada :/) and I think the trailer showed that there is a sex scene in it... that's all I know :/ Never read the book or anything though.

[Locke]

http://imdb.com/title/tt0397535/

It's PG-13...

And as someone who read the book, the movie is soooo watered down. Besides, its not that good anyway >_>

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Geisha are female escorts, so I guess its about Japanese prostitutes. Not the best subject matter but the cinematography looks great (judging from the trailer).

[Shao Feng-Li]

Yeah I know what Geisha's are. But they don't seem to be mere prostitutes.

Their situation seemed to be different. I know a lot of them were sold into it.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Their situation is a little different and it's based on a true story. But I don't know any more than that - sorry!

[kryptech]

The movie drew my interest at first glance so when the review was available here at PluggedInOnline.com, I read it. It doesn't really seem like my kind of movie so I probably won't watch it. And ya, it does contain a bit of mature themes and content.

[Arnobius]

Geisha are not prostitutes, but rather professional entertainers, using a wide variety of arts to entertain. Some prostitutes have dressed as geisha (you can see this in the Takeshi Kitano version of Zatoichi). When one hired a geisha, prostitution was never part of the services paid for.

I recall that when the novel came out, the real geisha it was based on condemned it as inaccurate and sued the author for defamation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha is a good link for general info.


and some of the objections to the novel:

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501021202-393813,00.html

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/a_woman_scorned.htm

[Mithrandir]

Thanks, AH. I didn't wanna have to do the research to set people straight.

[Lady Macbeth]

Good links, AnimeHeretic.

The misinformation presented in the book and Golden's lack of understanding in the culture (even if he didn't feel she wanted her identity kept secret, he should have known enough about the culture to do so anyway) are what has made me shy away from the book and the movie. The book is misrepresentative fiction, and the movie is likely to be a boiled down version of that.

[Shao Feng-Li]

THen you have to consider history revision...

THis is coming from someone eho does know much abouth is topic. From Watsuki's Rurouni Kenshin(which is based on a lot of history) I found this little tid bit: The Maria Luz case, which I under stand to be true, involved the Geisha, and that Japan kept them enslaved in the districts and that they were prostitutes.

I dunno... maybe that's how it was in the 1800s. *shrug*

Anyway it doesn't seem like I'll be seeing the movie. There will probrably be too much sexual content.

[Arnobius]

THen you have to consider history revision...

THis is coming from someone eho does know much abouth is topic. From Watsuki's Rurouni Kenshin(which is based on a lot of history) I found this little tid bit: The Maria Luz case, which I under stand to be true, involved the Geisha, and that Japan kept them enslaved in the districts and that they were prostitutes.

I dunno... maybe that's how it was in the 1800s. *shrug*

Anyway it doesn't seem like I'll be seeing the movie. There will probrably be too much sexual content.

Actually in Manga Max magazine back in 2000, Watsuki admitted he knew very little of that period of Japan and tended to fake it. The Maria Luz case involved Chinese laborers being transported to Peru, that the courts of Japan ordered freed because they were not making the trip willingly.

[Lady Macbeth]

THen you have to consider history revision...

THis is coming from someone eho does know much abouth is topic. From Watsuki's Rurouni Kenshin(which is based on a lot of history) I found this little tid bit: The Maria Luz case, which I under stand to be true, involved the Geisha, and that Japan kept them enslaved in the districts and that they were prostitutes.

I dunno... maybe that's how it was in the 1800s. *shrug*

Anyway it doesn't seem like I'll be seeing the movie. There will probrably be too much sexual content.

From what research I have done, all valid reports of the Maria Luz case (both Western and non-Western) reference the fact that those aboard the Maria Luz were Chinese unskilled laborers bound for Peru.

The Maria Luz (as is suggested by its name) was a Peruvian ship, and had just come from China with its cargo - including the human slave labor. The ship sustained substantial damage in a storm and sailed into Japan (some sources say Edo, some say Yokohama) for repairs.

The events following the Maria Luz's arrival in Japan are sketchy, but the course of events is believed to be as follows:

Two of the Chinese on board (referred to in most articles as "coolies", a derogatory slang for unskilled Asian laborers) jumped overboard when the ship made port]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Juan39/Japan_China.html

At the beginning the Government decided that the ironclad Independencia should transport the mission. The main reason of sending a powerful ironclad had a disuasive purpose, because the Japanese authorities had seized at the port of Yokohama a Peruvian cargo vessel, the María Luz, and had jailed the Captain of the ship under allegations of ill treatment of Chinese citizens aboard. The ship also was attacked by hostile mobs and suffered serious damages, so the Peruvian Government wanted an apology and a compensation for the ship´s owners.

Considering that the presence of the Independencia in Japanese waters was not enough, On November 12, 1872, the Peruvian Minister of War and Navy, Jose Miguel Medina, sent to Captain Nicolas del Portal, commander of the 1,600-ton screw corvette Union, which was under repairs in British shipyards, the following secret message (excerpts):

“Next week the frigate Independence will depart from Callao under command of its Captain, Aurelio García y García in a trip to the coasts of China and Japan. The Captain of that ship has been invested as Minister Plenipotentiary and his mission is to sign Trade and Navigation Treaties with those countries. However, as a result of the offense made by Japanese authorities to our National Flag by seizing illegally the Peruvian ship Maria Luz, whose Captain, Mr. Ricardo Herrera was forced into Yokohama after damages suffered by his ship during a storm, the Government has ordered our Plenipotentiary Minister to establish a proper reclamation to obtain the necessary apologies to our country and the reparations to the owners of such ship. [/quote]

The incident was settled with the Japanese being considered in the right:

http://www.coe.int/T/E/Cultural_Co-operation/education/History_Teaching/Reform_of_History_Teaching/Russian_Federation/g.Tokyo.asp

This event was communicated to the acting British chargé d’Affaires who, in turn, contacted the State Minister for Foreign Affairs, Soejima Taneomi, and urged the Japanese government to regard the matter as the illtreatment of slaves. Soejima took the view that, as Japan had not concluded a treaty of amity and friendship with Peru, the case fell under Japan’s jurisdiction, and he, therefore, convened an international court under Ohe Taku, the Governor of Kanagawa Prefecture, to hand down a decision. The court found in favour of the Japanese government and the coolies were released and returned to China. The Peruvian government, however, was not satisfied with Japan’s handling of the case and demanded an apology and compensation. The Japanese government there submitted the case to international arbitration under the Tsar of Russia. On 29 May 1875, Tsar Alexander II decided that Japan was not liable for compensation, leaving Japan the ultimate victor. It must be said, however, that behind the Tsar’s finding in favour of Japan was the conclusion of a treaty for the exchange of Sakhalin and the Kurils, signed in St. Petersbourg just three weeks before, on 7 May by the Ambassador Extraordinary of Japan, Enomoto Takeaki, and his Russian counterpart, Gorchakov.

No mention is made anywhere that the human cargo on board the Maria Luz were Japanese in heritage or that they were prostitutes in particular.

It is entirely likely that upon being freed into Japan that they were treated poorly. Foreigners and mixed-race Japanese are frowned upon in Japanese society and are part of the make-up of the burakumin, a social minority group. Burakumin during the Tokugawa era did face persecutions and restrictions such as those that Watsuki attributed to the "prostitutes" aboard the Maria Luz, and prostitution is certainly a trade that burakumin would have been able to participate in. Burakumin of that era were treated as less than human, and even in today's Japan there is widespread discrimination against their class, even though legally discrimination based on class has been abolished. Limited education and job opportunities has ensured that burakumin don't find much opportunity for social climbing.

[Ashley]

Correct me if I am wrong, b ut I have often heard that geishas were mostly girls from very poor families whose parents sold them into the trade to take care of the rest of them. I would think that changes the dynamic quite a bit.

[chibiphonebooth]

Yeah, geishas are not prostitutes. i watched a documentary on it, it was 3 hrs long and very well done!

they are not prostitutes, they are female entertainers- they are there for the buisness men. The buissness men come in and discuss whatever, and the gieshas are there to lighten the mood and whatnot. They play games, play music, put on presentations- etc. But they are never prostitutes. ever.

you can tell if one is a prostitute if they tie their obi in the FRONT, as opposed to the back. :/


also, about the movie- did you know that almost all the actors and actresses in this movie are CHINESE instead of JAPANESE? yeah. >.<
i really dont understand why they cant just have japanese people to play japanese people. goodness.

[Ingemar]

I will not see this movie.

Chinese actress = Japanese character = automatic FAIL.

At least in Kill Bill they were sensible enough to say that Lucy Liu was a mutt.

[Lady Macbeth]

Correct me if I am wrong, b ut I have often heard that geishas were mostly girls from very poor families whose parents sold them into the trade to take care of the rest of them. I would think that changes the dynamic quite a bit.

It wasn't always just to take care of the rest of them, however. Often, becoming a maiko (apprentice geisha) and then a geisha gave the young girl opportunities that she would have never had being from a poor family. Just like in many countries, in Japan girls were (and still are to a certain extent) considered less valuable to the family than boys. Becoming a highly-respected geisha is one way for women to advance themselves and live a better life than they would have otherwise.

The "purchase" of a child into a geisha house benefits both sides - the girl's family and the girl herself will be sitting better than they previously were, and the geisha house has a new apprentice to work for them and later take on and continue their traditions. It's very similar to how many trades operate in Japan, but because of the negative connotations Westerners tend to put on geisha, they get more attention.

[Arnobius]

I will not see this movie.

Chinese actress = Japanese character = automatic FAIL.

At least in Kill Bill they were sensible enough to say that Lucy Liu was a mutt.

also, about the movie- did you know that almost all the actors and actresses in this movie are CHINESE instead of JAPANESE? yeah. >.<
i really dont understand why they cant just have japanese people to play japanese people. goodness.

You do realize that by this logic we need Japanese singers for every performance of Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado?

[ChristianKitsune]

I got the book for a christmas present...so...should I read it? ^^;

[Hitokiri]

I wouldn't mind seeing this.

Though I doubt any of my friends would like to.

[chibiphonebooth]

no i REALLY wanna see this movie. badly.

i dont care if they are chinese. well... i do... but.. ill see it anyway. :p

[Lady Macbeth]

[quote="ChristianRonin"]I got the book for a christmas present...so...should I read it? ^^]

I would take a stab that it is probably a very good read as a piece of fiction. I have heard a lot of praise about the emotional and storytelling content of the book.

If you don't go into it expecting it to be the actual memoirs of a geisha, it's probably a fine read.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Ahh, okay thanks for the info guys.

[ChristianKitsune]

WOOT! I shall read it then!

pfft I didn't expect it to be anyway..^^;

[Tommy]

No offence to Chinese/Japanese but I can`t tell the difference.

This movie looks really um.....WEIRD!

Ok, I said it.

I really hope that was a typo when a earlier poster said this movie was PG-14. I have had enough of random pointless in-between-the-lines-ratings. Anyways sorry for going off topic.

PEACE!

[Tarnish]

I'm not sure, but I think PG-14 is a Canadian rating, TD.

[Bobtheduck]

I can tell the difference in most cases, though the look of Chinese is far more varied than the look of Japanese, so there are probably Chinese people who look Japanese...

And as for the movie It looked interesting, but is it really that far off?

[Mangafanatic]

No offence to Chinese/Japanese but I can`t tell the difference.

This movie looks really um.....WEIRD!

Did you think so? All the trailers I've seen struck me as being stunning, if from nothing more than a cinematic point of view. The premise also interests me, but I'm a bit hesitant to watch it because it seems there's a lot of sexuality involved.

I really hope that was a typo when a earlier poster said this movie was PG-14.

I would imagine it was either a typo or that it was a rating for anothing country with a different rating system.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Cast overview, first billed only:
Suzuka Ohgo .... Chiyo
Togo Igawa .... Tanaka
Mako .... Sakamoto
Samantha Futerman .... Satsu
Elizabeth Sung .... Sakamoto's Wife
Thomas Ikeda .... Mr. Bekku
Li Gong .... Hatsumomo
Tsai Chin .... Auntie
Kaori Momoi .... Mother
Zoe Weizenbaum .... Young Pumpkin
David Okihiro .... Shamisen Teacher
Miyako Tachibana .... Dance Teacher
Kotoko Kawamura .... Granny
Karl Yune .... Koichi
Eugenia Yuan .... Korin

Not all of them are Chinese.

[Hitokiri]

Ken Watanabe is in it. He's a very good actor.