why are religious movies so bad?

[Uriel]

Sorry if I offend some people, but why are current religious movies generally so bad? I thought Constantine and Stigmata and the new Exorcist movies were icky and horrible compared to older films like Ben Hur and Spartacus. I don't understand why they can't make a good Christian movie nowadays.

[bigsleepj]

Well, you see, a majority of filmmakers and artists aren't Chrisitans. I don't think any of the people involved in Constantine were Christians - and neither were the comics it was based on written by Christians.

The Exorcist prequel was messed up from the beginning. Paul Schrader, who directed the original version but when it had no gore in it (it was a psychological / spiritual thriller) they fired him, hired Renny Harlin to reshoot 90% of the movie and make it more gory. The Schrader version has been released under a different title as "Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist". Its more theologically correct, I hear. Schrader, although not a Christian, has a better head for theology than most Hollywood directors although his movies are usually very dark.

[Uriel]

Hmm yeah, I thought the online Christian reviews were funny! They were condemning that movie. I have to say it started off OK but then just went downhill.

[Arnobius]

Sorry if I offend some people, but why are current religious movies generally so bad? I thought Constantine and Stigmata and the new Exorcist movies were icky and horrible compared to older films like Ben Hur and Spartacus. I don't understand why they can't make a good Christian movie nowadays.

Hmm... I wouldn't call Constantine or Stigmata religious movies in the proper sense: I'd call them movies with a supernatural bent or movies with a religious element. (I don't recall Spartacus as being a religious movie btw)

I think the religious movies (authentic) come about where the people involved have a respect for God and wish to treat religion in a respectful manner.

[uc pseudonym]

This has been said before, but I similarly wouldn't call those movies "Christian" or even really "religious." They were primarily focused upon supernatural elements, and borrowed from Judeo-Christian beliefs. That doesn't actually make them Christian.

(I don't recall Spartacus as being a religious movie btw)

Well... there was a cross. I mean, crosses are never anything but religious symbols, not anything silly like instruments of capitol punishment.

I think the religious movies (authentic) come about where the people involved have a respect for God and wish to treat religion in a respectful manner.

That is a good definition.

[Fsiphskilm]

You're e.

[Rachel]

I saw an interview with Mandy Moore around the time "Saved" came out. She said it was kind of making fun of people who take everything too seriously.

[Jman]

I think because most people hear about god and all the jazz on a regular basis that when they want to go to the movies they want somthing, not godhish, my 2 cents!

[rocklobster]

I think because most people hear about god and all the jazz on a regular basis that when they want to go to the movies they want somthing, not godhish, my 2 cents!

Yeah, whatever happened to uplifting stuff like It's a Wonderful Life, Pollyanna, Dead Poets Society, et. al? These days, it seems they don't know how to do that anymore.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Its a Wonderful Life was a good uplifting movie, but Dead Poets Society? Have you even seen it? Its one of the most depressing movies I've ever seen! Not uplifting at all.

[rocklobster]

Its a Wonderful Life was a good uplifting movie, but Dead Poets Society? Have you even seen it? Its one of the most depressing movies I've ever seen! Not uplifting at all.

I was talking about the movie's message, not what resulted. The message, "carpe deim", is indeed a profound one.

[Vash is a plant]

Yeah, whatever happened to uplifting stuff like It's a Wonderful Life, Pollyanna, Dead Poets Society, et. al? These days, it seems they don't know how to do that anymore.

I would say the fall of morality in America is the reason why movies like that don't come out anymore... Movie maker's main focus: make money. To make money, the majority of movie watchers must like what they see and if what they like to see is smut, that's what will be made.

[rocklobster]

I would say the fall of morality in America is the reason why movies like that don't come out anymore... Movie maker's main focus: make money. To make money, the majority of movie watchers must like what they see and if what they like to see is smut, that's what will be made.

If that's the case, why'd The Passion do so well?

[Shao Feng-Li]

If that's the case, why'd The Passion do so well?

Because people are drawn to idolitry and would rather read about some guy's rendition of the Gospel rather than the real thing. It's our nature.

I thought Constantine and Stigmata and the new Exorcist movies were icky and horrible compared to older films like Ben Hur and Spartacus.

Well of course they are horrid. I don't know about Stigmata, but Constantine (asuming we're talking aobu the same) isn't even remotely Christian based.


And be sure to under stand what"religious" means. Everyone's religious in their own way.

Main Entry: 1re·li·gious
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French religieus, from Latin religiosus, from religio
1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b : FERVENT, ZEALOUS


Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

And my point being that any movie comes from a perosn with their own personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices: Most of the time they don't meet God's standards about what we are commanded to believe concerning God and most fo the time they don't even believe in God.

Besides, Constantine is based off of mysticism in the first place.

[Stephen]

Because people are drawn to idolitry

Shao, we know the kind of debate and arguement that can stem from the whole Passion debate...so stop, and don't even go there. As far as movies go....the person who started this thread never said Constantine was a Christian movie. They called it a religious movie...and it is quite a religious movie. A movie about Bhudda or Allah would also be considered religious. Once more, Christianity is a relationship not a religion. ^^

[Mangafanatic]

Why are they so bad? Well, it's because Christian authors are afraid to offend their target demographic so they aviod dealing with any issue that are controversial, difficult, dark, or otherwise, intelligent. Stripped of their ability to write stories about subject that actually affect the average person, they're left to write stories about prefect worlds where real sin doesn't exist and realistic characters are banned for fear of "offending" the religious.


. . . Yeah, I've given this a lot of thought. I pray that I never become a religious author. I much prefer being a writer who loves Jesus.

[Kireihana]

I think it's because it is difficult to portray a Christian movie that is acceptable to all audiences realistically. Realistically, the life of a Christian is not straightforward joy and happiness. There are temptations, pitfalls, etc. And like any movie there are characters in our lives that use crass language and do un-Christian things. But like Osaka said, most Christian authors/filmmakers are afraid to portray that, and therefore we're left with a sugarcoated version of actual Christianity...

I must say though that there are some Christian authors and filmmakers who do a darn good job. C.S. Lewis for one, and I think the Left Behind series is excellent as well. I'm anticipating The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe movie (and hope Hollywood doesn't butcher Lewis's message)

[Stephen]

and hope Hollywood doesn't butcher Lewis's message)

Actually from what I have heard, a member of Lewis' famiy is on the staff to make sure they stay true...at least thats what i have heard.

[bigsleepj]

Actually from what I have heard, a member of Lewis' famiy is on the staff to make sure they stay true...at least thats what i have heard.

That would be Douglas Gresham, Lewis' Stepson. He's the co-producer. But it would be dumb to remove the Christian images from LW&W. As an atheist fan of the book once observed: "If you take out all the Christian references then the book wont have any sense of wonder left."

[Shao Feng-Li]

Shao, we know the kind of debate and arguement that can stem from the whole Passion debate...so stop, and don't even go there.

Oh, don't worry I know about that all to well, so I only typed one sentence and left it at that.

Once more, Christianity is a relationship not a religion. ^^

I've just heard it said when peple call something "religious", they mean it's Chritian, is all. Huh... I've never heard it put that way before. Cool.

[ShiroiHikari]

Why are they so bad? Well, it's because Christian authors are afraid to offend their target demographic so they aviod dealing with any issue that are controversial, difficult, dark, or otherwise, intelligent. Stripped of their ability to write stories about subject that actually affect the average person, they're left to write stories about prefect worlds where real sin doesn't exist and realistic characters are banned for fear of "offending" the religious.


. . . Yeah, I've given this a lot of thought. I pray that I never become a religious author. I much prefer being a writer who loves Jesus.

You are SO right. I get so tired of seeing this. Maybe people need to be offended once in a while! The ones making Christians look bad are...Christians. People need to stop sugarcoating everything. It's sickening.

But it doesn't mean you have to be overly graphic. Things should still be done tastefully, but currently there aren't many people with the skill to pull that kind of thing off. And the people that do have the skill are probably too afraid to get their work out there in the public eye.

[uc pseudonym]

I need to apologize to Uriel; I read far too quickly and thought you were labelling the films you mentioned as Christian films, albeit bad ones. There is really no excuse for this, though it may have been caused by a good deal of cynicism.

Still, I believe I might stick to my point that "supernatural" does not imply "religious" regardless of the terminology in which it is dressed. Aside from this, I believe my only new comment is that I have some hope for the new Chronicles of Narnia movie.

[Uriel]

Thanks for all the comments! I'd really like to see a decent, non-horrid/controversial Christian movie to watch like Narnia. Anime really starts to go off the rails sometimes when it deals with religion, adding superstitions and speculation but somehow always keeping the issues within the anime...

Mind you...I wanted to ask about Evangelion. That was wierd. Is it kabbalist or something?

[Chosen Raven]

Actually from what I have heard, a member of Lewis' famiy is on the staff to make sure they stay true...at least thats what i have heard.

Still, I'll bet some of the more un-PC things are removed or altered.

[SPOILER] I remember Santa telling Susan not to use her arrows unless she absolutely had to because "battles are ugly when women fight". [/SPOILER]

Hopefully, it won't turn out like the LOTR movies did in that regard.

Remember, this is Disney we're dealing with. They're as close as you can get to a man-hating organization without it being a feminist one.

[mitsuki lover]

Susan was always a bit of a cry-baby compared to the other children.
Interesting she is also the only one that turns away from Narnia in the
end because she finds it too childish.
Myself I always perferred either Lucy or Jill.
Actually we could extend the question to ask why so many Christian
novels are so bad these days?

[uc pseudonym]

Actually we could extend the question to ask why so many Christian novels are so bad these days?

I hesitate to say this, but I believe it is because of the audience such writers are writing for. In general, this group isn't asking for good writing, and they'll accept bad writing simply because it is "Christian." This has happened in other mediums before, and I hope it does not eventually happen to Christian movies.

[Rachel]

^ I think the same could pretty much be said for most contemporary Christian music, also.

[Maledicte]

I agree with the first two statements. This has to stop! Who's with me!? *clenches fist*

There's actually a good book out there, called "Imagine" by Steve Turner, a calling for Christians to actually make good art in any medium...anyways back on topic...

[Uriel]

Christian books? Does that include spin -offs from movies?

[Technomancer]

I think to some extent, one also needs to ask: why are contemporary films so vapid? I mean, there are pretty few regular theatre films that really consider weighty issues or that could really be called a work of art. Let's face it, the truth is that most of the public would rather see Adam Sandler's latest opus than anything that makes them think. Most audiences can't even hack subtitles for crying out loud!

Religion on the other hand does focus on some of humanity's deepest thoughts, fears and hopes. You can of course, make a religious film that doesn't do that, in which case the result is often cheap sentimentality and "feel good" happy endings that don't really offer any kind of satisfactory thoughts. And there is only so many times you can make a film about the Gospels.

There are religiously oriented films that are masterpieces, and that do deliever the goods so to speak, but there aren't too many of them. In addition, one is forced to wonder at times just how many of the Christian audience "get" such films when they are speaking from a denominational tradition that is not there own. Then again, there are those members of the audience that seem determined to miss the point no matter what any one does, 'The Last Temptation of Christ' being a prime example.

Why are they so bad? Well, it's because Christian authors are afraid to offend their target demographic so they aviod dealing with any issue that are controversial, difficult, dark, or otherwise, intelligent. Stripped of their ability to write stories about subject that actually affect the average person, they're left to write stories about prefect worlds where real sin doesn't exist and realistic characters are banned for fear of "offending" the religious.

And such books consitently fail to impress with such obvious phoniness. Real life isn't quite so "shiny happy", nor fundamentally is human nature. However, I think I disagree with your assertion that it is specifically Christian authors. I can think of several authors who do examine the subject with depth and humanity, although their popularity/acceptability may vary since they may be speaking from very different worldviews than you are customarily familiar with.

Of course, one may say that they are exceptions, which they may very well be. On the other hand if the old maxim that 95% of everything is crap is taken to be true, then it probably applies to Christian fiction/cinema just as much as it applies to everything else.