So, what's the current status of Christian games?

[Yojimbo]

And "saving the world" can still be done, but in more unique ways.
Perhaps have someone trying to kill the protagonist because the hero is actually the one who will lead to the world's destruction?
Have the final boss be someone who was actually a hero in the past and is causing destruction so his love won't be killed by the true villains?
Or how about being a "here" who wants to destroy a kingdom for causing the deaths of thousands of his own people in a war, the "spirits" of which are contained inside him and help him to achieve this goal?

Would any of those work? (all "copyrighted" by me, nya! XP )

Actually two of those are something like what the story is in KOTOR 1 and 2.

KOTOR
[spoiler]You were the original villain but your memory and powers were damaged[/spoiler]

KOTOR 2
[spoiler]You might ultimately be the "death" of the Force Jedi and Sith don't like you in the end[/spoiler]

[Azier the Swordsman]

Random dungeons were also used in Evolution I believe. And while I like the plot of Evolution, the dungeons were quite lame.

[uc pseudonym]

Regarding the recent discussion of cliches: I think that, to a certain degree, anything can be reduced to a number of elements that have all been done before; at times frequently. In fact, I think that if an idea that was honestly completely new were to appear, it could still be reduced to tired cliches. This is the case with most things: if you are determined enough you can reduce it until the point where nothing remains.

That having been said, however, I should point out that this thread has an original topic, and we should remain with it as much as possible.

[Myoti]

I'll try to get back on topic, but I just wanted to say something real quick:

Yeah, I thought most of those had been done in the one way or another. The "resurrecting the world one" actually came more from Terranigma, though one of my ideas does involve resurrecting it.

While it may be nigh impossible to come up with something unique (that isn't way out there, which I am also doing), I'm pretty confident some of my other parts of these games will be quite... interesting. O_o

This was done in Chocobo's Dungeon 2, which many people hold to be one of the worst RPGs of all time. Random dungeons are really lame, because they all tend to look the same...

I've heard of that, but it's not exactly what I meant. I don't mean completely "random" dungeons, I mean that every dungeon has different "versions", but each time you play through the game you may face a different "version" of the dungeon/floor.

Example:
The third dungeon in one of my games is called Terraga. One time you play through it, you'll find the boss room directly infront of you, but first you must travel to the "corners" of the dungeon and defeat these creatures in order to unlock the boss door.
Another time you play, the boss room will still be directly in front and you must defeat the creatures to unlock it, but this time you enter several, deep subterranean areas where the creatures will be found.

So, each dungeon would have two or three possible "versions" of themselves, but each dungeon will be different every time you go through the game (instead of setting them such as in a Normal or Hard mode).

In another dungeon, there could be around twenty different versions of the floors in a tower, but the tower is only twelve stories tall, so the collection of floors will be different every time.



Now, back on topic. Though I've mentioned it before, I have four possible "Christian" game ideas. One an RPG (which I will try to make the story as original as possible -_-), an FPS (a good FPS, with more of a "Metroid Prime" style), a hack n' slash based off Joshua (hey, it can work!) beginning immediately after the fall of Jericho's walls, and a sort of action game that no one will realize is Christian-based till possibly the end of the game (Hint: it deals with a guy investigating recent mass "abductions" in the midst of several terrorist attacks).

[skynes]

Terranigma was a cool game. It was the sequel to Illusion of Time or Illusion of Gaia as its also known. Which itself was the sequel to Soul Blazer!

[Ky Kiske]

see the problem with RPGs is that the saving the world thing is cliche however nothing is more satisfying then saving the world. I mean what are you going to replace that with? just getting sick of the adventure and going home and letting the evil take over.
There was a game called The Bard's Tale that did a terrific job of mocking that.
Volt that's one you would appreciate if you dislike RPGs.

Also even I can see the problem with a christian RPG, you want to save the world but since YOUR doing it, no glory is given to God.

If only there was a way to overcome that and present Christian elements in there.

There are alot of ideas still left but you have to go about it in a postmodern way.

Christian games are hard pressed right now because of these things:

1. There are certain things like violence that the christian community is split down the middle on. If a game had violence and was well done it would be considered "cool" buy the youth and bought, yet would be blasted by focus on the family, and similiar groups, however games without violence are labeled uncool and childish and won't suceed even if it were backed up by christian leaders.

2. games by nature are very idealistic and humanistic, they are about what your character does, and how your character is great, it isn't about the sacrifice of others, to save the whole although those elements are present (like in Grandia 2)
This make it hard for a christian message of salvation if you aren't the one doing it.

3. Religious characters especially in RPGs are corrupted. How many times have you had a priest either be evil, or some old man who gives you a sword, or just some guy that heals you. That's how most people view these priest's. They don't take them or anyone with a semi-christian faith seriously.


But that being said I want to help create a Christian RPG really badly (I'm willing to help you brainstorm Myoti) as I think it has a the opportunity to overcome the odds.

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote

[Myoti]

1. There are certain things like violence that the christian community is split down the middle on. If a game had violence and was well done it would be considered "cool" buy the youth and bought, yet would be blasted by focus on the family, and similiar groups, however games without violence are labeled uncool and childish and won't suceed even if it were backed up by christian leaders.

I believe in using violence to an extent, such as slashing, but with little to no blood, but going overboard is something I don't plan on doing in these games. Still, that in itself could still have the Christian community in shock. If they do, they would have some serious issues. I mean, "The Passion" has more blood than most movies out there, but they didn't seem to complain too much (not from what I saw, anyways). They just warned not to let younger children see it. I'd handle it the same way, which is why there is "T" rating on games like that.
In the end, someone will probably play them, despite what either side may say about it.

3. Religious characters especially in RPGs are corrupted. How many times have you had a priest either be evil, or some old man who gives you a sword, or just some guy that heals you. That's how most people view these priest's. They don't take them or anyone with a semi-christian faith seriously.

Hopefully I'll be finding a way to change that. Even in my more "secular" style games, I plan to try some refrerence into these things (of course, it's been done before, but not very seriously).

But that being said I want to help create a Christian RPG really badly (I'm willing to help you brainstorm Myoti) as I think it has a the opportunity to overcome the odds.

Thanks. ^-^ I have an interesting idea, though I haven't worked alot of the details.

[uc pseudonym]

see the problem with RPGs is that the saving the world thing is cliche however nothing is more satisfying then saving the world. I mean what are you going to replace that with? just getting sick of the adventure and going home and letting the evil take over.

No, RPGs have much broader scope. What about one that takes place within an extremely corrupt city? The characters don't have to save the world, they would merely interact with the political condition of the city (with, of course, gangs and assassins to justify having a combat system). If you wanted a dark game, they could choose which factions to join and assist. For a more redemptive experience, the characters could restore the city to become a better place (which would be interesting, because it couldn't use the "go someplace, kill boss, go someplace else" formula, or at least it shouldn't).

[Fsiphskilm]

What if t

[Yojimbo]

What if the world didn't need to be saved.

Or everyone was saving the world, and your group was one of the many that maintain the world's safety, everyone has their own responsibilites, and is responsible for different territory and fighting off different evils.

During the game you should be able to switch between these groups, or transfer HP and MP between them

(c) mine

Well technically you'd still be sort of saving the world from an impending threat that without you could take over the world. But the switching deal is cool.

Oh and you guys forgot that not always is a priest just the usual sword dispenser, wise dude, there's also the warrior priest party character which isn't such a bad thing.

Look something is gonna get have to get saved guys in a good versus evil themed RPG. It's cliched but it's really the only suitable one. In fact I'm hard pressed to find any fictional game or story where there isn't something to be saved in a battle of good versus evil. That's just the way it is I guess and that's fine with me.

[GhostPoet]

When christian game company stop classifying themselves AS Christian game companies..I think then we'll see an improvement.

[Yojimbo]

When christian game company stop classifying themselves AS Christian game companies..I think then we'll see an improvement.

Seriously you don't see Lance Armstrong calling himself a handicapped cyclist. They're making excuses for themselves if they keep to that route and they will never be taken seriously in the game world.

[Myoti]

When christian game company stop classifying themselves AS Christian game companies..I think then we'll see an improvement.

Seriously you don't see Lance Armstrong calling himself a handicapped cyclist. They're making excuses for themselves if they keep to that route and they will never be taken seriously in the game world.

Exactly. Out of the twenty plus plans I have, I currently have four that could be classified as "Christian" games, and only one appears that way on the surface since it's based off a Biblical refrence (Joshua).

Still, there's nothing that keeps me from putting in Christian refrences into my other games in a more indirect way.

[Yojimbo]

Exactly. Out of the twenty plus plans I have, I currently have four that could be classified as "Christian" games, and only one appears that way on the surface since it's based off a Biblical refrence (Joshua).

Still, there's nothing that keeps me from putting in Christian refrences into my other games in a more indirect way.

Yeah I think we've beat it home that any game that's outright Christian, if you know what I mean, like "Bible Home Trivia" won't do very well. A game with Christian themes like selflesness, sacrifice, fellowship, faith in people, are all qualities you can find in games. At least your traditional good versus evil deal.

[Myoti]

At least your traditional good versus evil deal.

Well, I do happen have a few plans that happen to be more of an "evil versus good" deal.

[Psycho Ann]

That is three different kinds of funny.

I shall not take the credit: http://www.realultimatepower.net

(yes, this quite the pointless post XD)

[Godly Paladin]

Er...was that as random as I think it was?

[uc pseudonym]

When christian game company stop classifying themselves AS Christian game companies..I think then we'll see an improvement.

And, perhaps, we will have seen an improvement when they stop being classified as such.

I shall not take the credit: http://www.realultimatepower.net

(yes, this quite the pointless post XD)

I know the site, actually. That was one of the kinds of funny.

[Ky Kiske]

lol I love that site I even bought the book!
the kid is crazy but awesome.

[Bobtheduck]

#1 - Enough with the same BGmusic over and over and over. Through-out the game make it habbit to just change the Music here and there. No one wants to play a game for 90 hours and listen to the same Battle Music.

Ok... Battle Music is one thing, but NONE of the final fantasy games kept the same background (BG) music throughout the game... X doesn't even have an overworld map, so you don't have to worry about that.

#2 - Enough Button mashing, the majority of RPGs play themselves, the same ice, fire, wind, water, /or/ magic attacks/physical attacks which in essense don't require much thought. Make us THINK. every min, It's the same idea. Kill the enemy, kill the enemy. You could pretty much use the same move on all the enemies in that area and get through, only problem is they keep poping up.

Have you played Chrono Cross? If you button mashed your way though, you wouldn't last very long... Unless, I suppose, you got really lucky... The magic was very limited, and it forced you to strategize a bit. Chrono Cross had strategy in the fights...

#3 - since leveling up is so important, make it something special, and streamline the processes. If every battle took 5 min. That's just.... *barf* FFX-2's battles lasted seconds at times. Which was nice.

Not all RPG's have standard Leveling up. Chrono Cross, for one, didn't, and If I remember correctly, neither did FF8. I don't really remember how that one played out, though...

#4 - Stop saving the world! I wish RPG's would be a bit more creative, insteadof just "Save the World" epic adventure. Try something different.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but FF8 wasn't a "save the world" game, really... The sorceress wasn't going to destroy the world... She was just holding it in bondage... I guess that's still the same arena, though... In my RPG maker days, I played a number of games that weren't "Save the world"

#5 - If you want people to spend 90 hours leveling up. Make it special. Make it interesting. Is it chore like? If so, you're a bad game designer.I don't know, ANYTHING but what we're stuck with now. Change is good.

Hmm... I do get annoyed, as do most people, with leveling up. I don't think that's a flaw in design, necissarily. I think it is that way because you can beat most of them without leveling up, but it just opens an option to make the game easier for those who have patience or who just suck at the game... It's in the majority of RPG's for a reason... Because people love it... And people hate it, too, but would hate it more if it were gone entirely... It actually did annoy me in Chrono Cross to not have an easier way of leveling... Leveling meant almost nothing. They got original, and it worked, but it created its own frustrations. You can never please everyone...

Oh, and I realize it's just your opinions, but I like crazy plot twists... They make things interesting, usually (except for "Saw"...) I also liked the plots in FF6, FF8, FF10, Chrono Cross, Chrono Trigger, Seiken Densetsu 1-3, etc...

Also, I have a friend with a very full schedule who can afford maybe two hours of gameplay a week. His favorite game? Final Fantasy X.