So, what's the current status of Christian games?

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Postby Myoti » Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:41 pm

Volt, you make a good point and that whole Revelation idea is not bad. Do it!
I`m serious it actually works. After what Myoti just said, I want to bash my head into a brick wall. Releasing a game called "Bible Trivia" is like realesing a new flavor of Kool-Aid called "Poison" kool-aid. only abusive parents will buy that Koolaid and only Bible Freaks will buy that game. It Will not Sell at all.

:lol:

Reminds me of that commercial for the "Graphic Bible". The narrator is talking about how these kids are "reading the bible, and actually enjoying it!", and the kids are sitting on the floor dressed up like they're going to some super-formal occasion and they're smiling and pointing at the pictures...

Yeah, that's the only kind of people that would buy "Bible Trivia". And how many, comparitively, would be a hack 'n' slasher like my "Joshua" plan, hm? ;P
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:28 am

This is what I'd want to see: Core Christian principles introduced one by one (or in small groups) in story-heavy games (RPG's and interactive movies) particularly if it could be something as powerfull as Silent Hill 2 (I swear, that game changed my life, if only a little) If someone is presented with the concepts of forgiveness, different virtues, and the ideas that are central to salvations (the price for even the little things we do and the cost of redemption) and after all these things were layed out, the plan of salvation could come in as a side point (to make it central would raise those red flags)... Something that even the character could ignore. It would just be there. And, it's not like you'd see them go to hell if they chose wrongly-- though one game could demonstrate hell before that-- It's just that they could put all the pieces together and have ideas to think about.

The decission for salvation comes when people open their hearts to the suggestions of the Holy Spirit. This comes generally through the "message" partly, but also generally through experience... We can only give them pieces of the message to put together. We can plant seeds. Others will have to water them, understand? And if we get one person that comes to God out of this (particularly one who wouldn't have from a more blatently christian game) then it is worth all we can put into it...

It's something that would have to be done very slowly, and the people would have to establish trust among the console developers... It could be done.

Ky Kiske wrote:

Or Survival Horror
Character: "The Demons...They are out to get me!"
Gamer: "dude it kinda stinks the only weapon I have is holy water"

Metal Gear:
Bronze Snake: Colonel Operation Moses is underway.
Colonel: Snake press the action button to pray. Your objective is not to be seen by enemy soldier. However if you are spotted....CONVERT THEM.
Bronze Snake: Understood Snake out.


Sorry for the double post, but I didn't read this before, and it sparked a whole new

Another problem with people's thinking on Christian games is THAT. "Convert them... Pray" Yeah, since that of course consumes daily life for all christians exclusively and is demonstratable in video game format...

I think survival horror would be rather hard to do, but have you actually PLAYED Silent Hill 2 all the way through? I've been to message boards where people have had their lives changed by that game. I, actually, was one of them, sorta. It got them to strongly consider their lives. If something like that were to be done, the focus would have to be something OTHER than the scaring, and that would deflate it. However, if the focus were, say, sins in someone's life that needed to be dealt with, and it was shown spiritually in a very vibrant way with a horror-like motif, that would be different. That, by the way, can be shown without being so blatant about the Christian beliefs... Once again, planting ideas.

As for Metal Gear, what you could do inside a war game or espionage game is have things taking place the way they should (you know, fighting and keeping yourself alive) The only difference happens in what goes on with the character through the course of the game. Changes brought by interactions with other characters, friends and enemies alike, could include small seeds helping direct people to Jesus. In that case, a Metal Gear type game that was God-influenced would be possible.

As long as people get out of very narrow view of what would make a game christian, and what would make it effective in evangelism, as a softener and support rather than an offensive... If evangelism is a millitary effort, Evangelistic Christian media should be more like the Navy (minus the seals) than the Army or the Marines or even the Air Force... Real evangelism should be face to face, in my opinion... Things like good games, movies, and TV evangelists (yes, I include them in this) and even sunday morning evangelistic pastors' sermons have their place, but they are all secondary to witnessing and serving...

If you make a great game that introduces these ideas, that will open up chances to talk to fans too... That's where the real stuff happens...
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:48 am

(merging posts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:02 pm

Thank you for merging, Bobtheduck; I've cleaned up the extra post. Meanwhile, I think you make some good points. I definitely agree that these games' goal should only be to make the gamers think. If someone was converted by a video game... that would make me really wonder about quite a few things.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:Well, that's because we're one of the few religions these days that say "THIS is truth". Hinduism calls themselves "one of the truths", for example. They're really sort of 'anything goes' in hinduism, at least from what I've seen in India. Even Jesus is simply considered to be 'one of the gods' by Hindus in India. Saying you believe in Jesus as a god isn't serious to even the more hard-core hindus...only once you get baptised do people start to get offended, it seems.


While I'll admit that is certainly part of it (because how offensive can an inclusive religion be?), I believe it is more extensive than that. There are other religions that make exclusive claims, but they are generally tolerated because they are mostly in the minority.
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Postby Myoti » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:43 pm

As for Metal Gear, what you could do inside a war game or espionage game is have things taking place the way they should (you know, fighting and keeping yourself alive) The only difference happens in what goes on with the character through the course of the game. Changes brought by interactions with other characters, friends and enemies alike, could include small seeds helping direct people to Jesus. In that case, a Metal Gear type game that was God-influenced would be possible.

Reminds of another idea. Actually, it was sort of brought up by someone else, and I just "expanded" on it.

Basically, you start out as an agent (say, for the FBI), and you're driving along when all of a sudden he comes upon a pile-up in front of a stopped train. Someone says they here gunshots coming from the train, so the character decides he might as well check it out. As it turns out, the train is under attack by bandits, but it's soon discovered that that's not the reason for the wrecks and the train stopping.

The people driving them are gone.

Of course, it isn't blatantly told what's going on till much later, but any Christian gamer should be able to tell what's going on. ;)
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:19 pm

I don't like th
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Postby Fireproof » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:29 pm

*Looks back on the past few posts* *Nods* I see.
So, what I'm picking up from his is that Christian games should have gameplay that would be expected for the genre, and stories and characters that are obviously Christian, yet not combative to non-believers. Like an FPS where your character is a Christian, and decides to go out of her way to save the civilians threatened by a situation, rather than just continue with her mission. Or a character in an action game who shows mercy to an ememy, rather than lopping his head off. And so on.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:02 pm

I think that you make a point that many need to hear, Volt. But I will say this: just because games are friendly and noncombative doesn't mean they have to be feather-weight philosophies that commit to nothing. People searching for meaning don't want to see that either. Our goal isn't to not offend them, but to show something that they will want.
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:27 pm

Preach th
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Postby Fireproof » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:32 pm

To link up these last two posts to my own, the Gospel can be preached through actions, not just words, allowing the Good News to be integrated into actual gameplay, not just the story.
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Postby Breakman » Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:13 pm

... Well, I saw a preview of a Christian game called "The Bible Game" for the Playstation 2 and Gameboy Advance. It's a party/trivia game, dealing with old testament subjects. Maybe it's not an action/platformer game, but it seems to have many mini-games. It looks fun...
http://ps2.ign.com/objects/746/746738.html
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Postby Tommy » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:16 am

Well Breakman, that has been announced in this thread numerous times.

It may look fun, but it simply won`t sell like Poison KoolAid.
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:53 am

Yeah that
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Postby skynes » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:54 am

Over 11 pages we have come to these conclusions, correct me if I'm wrong or miss anything.

* Bible Trivia style games stink... As do Christian games that try to 'convert', ultimately they aren't games, just sermons you pay £39.99 for.

* Christian games should be tools, something a Christian can use to help preach the Gospel.

* Blatant Bible smashing doesn't work. People don't have a problem with Christianity, but with the way it is shown and preached.

* In Christian games, the game itself needs to be good, good Gameplay, good graphics, good story etc. Mix the Christianity in with the gameplay and story, don't be deceptive, but don't Bible bash either. Make it plain and clear, but not forced.

* Christian games need to be a bit more 'real'. I don't mean GTA style gore and blood, but something a bit more real than has been shown up to now.
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Postby Tommy » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:06 am

Amen.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:37 am

That's a decent summary, though this thread has also addressed the original question (the status of Christian games).

As for this new game, I don't have any direct feelings about it, but I am curious. Does anyone else know anything about Crave?
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Postby Tommy » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:22 am

No. What is Crave?
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Postby uc pseudonym » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:27 am

Volt's link listed the publisher and developer as an organization called Crave Entertainment. I was merely curious if anyone knew anything about them. From what little I found, I didn't see any games of note.
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Postby Tommy » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:44 am

Oh, sick.
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Postby MasterDias » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:51 am

Judging from the Gamefaqs game listings for Crave Entertainment, most of their developed games were movie-based games or things like Pinball or Poker.

IGN was a bit more helpful.
According to Crave's profile:
Los Angeles-based publisher, founded in 1998 by Nima Taghavi. The company initially made a push for in-house development with its now defunct Craveyard studio, but eventually shifted focus to publishing Japanese games in the US, such as Tokyo Xtreme and Ultimate Fighting Championship.


Company website is at http://www.cravegames.com/.
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Postby Chosen Raven » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:50 pm

Los Angeles-based publisher, founded in 1998 by Nima Taghavi. The company initially made a push for in-house development with its now defunct Craveyard studio, but eventually shifted focus to publishing Japanese games in the US, such as Tokyo Xtreme and Ultimate Fighting Championship.


Woah. Didn't expect their profile to be anything like that. I wonder what made them decide to publish the Bible Game....
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Postby Yojimbo » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:50 pm

MasterDias wrote:Judging from the Gamefaqs game listings for Crave Entertainment, most of their developed games were movie-based games or things like Pinball or Poker.

IGN was a bit more helpful.
According to Crave's profile:


Company website is at http://www.cravegames.com/.


I know one of their first PS2 games was Kengo which was sort of a spiritual succesor to Bushido Blade but it wasn't as good.
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Postby zoupzuop2 » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:14 pm

According to a book on Game Design I have from Prima, to sum it up into a few sentences, what you do to get a belief or point into a game successfully is not to slam it into the dialog, but to write a story completely AROUND that idea.

Say that you want kids to brush their teeth (OBVIOUSLY a kid's game from the start, so things could be more difficult for another game). Thus, you don't make a cartridge that just displays the words "BRUSH YOUR TEETH" in 3D. You make an elaborate story in which a dentist gets sucked into an alternate universe ruled by the evil Sir Rot and his minions of Decay and Tuu Thake. How the player recieves this bit of info or idealism is through the actual process. That process is made possible through excellent gameplay, good marketing, and... whatever makes a game good.

For a Christian game, say that you wanted the player to believe that God is all-powerful and all loving. You could have a Former-Christian-turned-Atheist who was turned off by the legalism of his former church, who has to venture through the depths of a dank, dismal city, coming across people across the way who change his opinion. For instance, say that he thought that all Christians would be judgemental and hate people who aren't Christians. He could be rescued from a dumpster by a very kind lady or something (all in a cutscene of course), who, he later finds out, is a Christian, thus shattering his opinion. Thus an idea is infiltrated without the blatant slamming of text.

...I could be wrong. This is just my theory. I've actually seen the back of Christian Video game boxes... they're garbage. Sheer garbage. The ideas behind the games are miserable, the graphics... even I could do better (and that means something!), and they're all FPS'. Unless Christian game marketers can come up with a Christian Halo or Final Fantasy Something, there's little hope.

There shouldn't be a difference between how a secular game is made and how a Christian game is made... to sum up a gazillion pages of text into a sentence.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:15 am

Crave broke off of Squaresoft (or was it Square USA?) Their first project was an RPG to compete with FF7... The title had something to do with shadows or darkness, I think... It was about some virus that was killing a whole lot of people, or something like that... It is rather strange that they are making a Bible trivia game... Since they broke off Squaresoft, maybe it's just my paranoia but I smell a trojan horse...
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Postby Fsiphskilm » Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:42 pm

Spirit
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Postby TheMelodyMaker » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:35 pm

I have that game! ^_^ You get to blow things up with a sword, too. :lol:
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Postby Tommy » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:32 pm

I remember Spiritual Warfare. I miss that game. I can`t find it. :(
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Postby Chosen Raven » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:57 pm

Speaking of Christian games....

This just announced:http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbehindeternalforces/news_6128575.html

Can't say I'm terribly excited about this...at all. I'm definitely not a fan of the Left Behind series.
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Postby MasterDias » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:10 pm

I don't really see how that will work very well.

What would be the units? Modern warfare with humans or another "angels" and "demons" thing?
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Postby Ky Kiske » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:16 pm

...this isn't good.
The movie based on that completely bombed, and now they are making a game?!
I for one am praying this will suceed because if it doesn't it will just stregthen publisher's resolve that a Christian game won't work.
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