So, what's the current status of Christian games?

[Azier the Swordsman]

short answer: They suck and no-one buys them


The Long Answer:
Why do they suck? Because they're prissy, have unrealisticly LOW amounts of violence, and can easily be described as "Sissy" or "Gay" (Social figure of Speech)
[period]

There's NO other reason as to why Christian games are at the bottom. Becuase they're always so picky on Theology. Christians are afraid to make games that use creativity or imagination because they keep thinking "what if leads someone to a cult realigion... hmmm... i shouldn't use fantasy! Fantasy is bad. I'll just make another Bible Verse Quiz Game"

I'm so tired of this. When I pull together my own GD studio The first Game I'm going to start working on will be called "Revelation: World on Fire" and its going to be extremely bloody, so bloody and violent that it'll be rated AO(adults only), in fact, there's going to be a cheat code that makes all water in 1/3 of the level turn to blood, and people heads will fly off, burning bodies and such"... just to get that out of my system. And you'll be able to kill anyone with any object. Even babanas and pebbles and office chairs. Also when you kill one person, even if you hit them in the foot, their entire body will exp..er... asplode. And the flinging blood from them.. if it touches any one else, they'll asplode too.

And Dogs and cats, birds and bugs, will all blow up and blood will fly everywhere, there will be so much blood, that the requirements for the game will be "Must be able to run in 2bit color mode" because the only colors you'll need are red and red...and a few others, but mostely bloody red.

and..and.. it'll be bloody, and lots of gore and it'll have zombies and at the end Jesus will come down from the sky and say "Kameyameee" and blow the whole world up, which will cuase EXTREME ammounts of blood to fly everywhere. And then the credits will roll.... ... .... in blood.

Just for the sake of saying 'FINALLY!!!! GOOOOOOSH, I WANTED TO SEE THAT IN A CHRISTIAN GAME FOR SOOOOOOO FREAKEN LONG!!!!!'

And then I'll go back to making Cute little Anime Christian RPGs.

*clipped by Azier*

[TheMelodyMaker]

Ahem. Speaking as one who is actually making one of these "Christian" games, may I humbly request that you all please stop lumping all of them into the same category? I am aware of the fact that not every "Christian" game is that great, but you don't get to really appreciate how hard is to try to design a really good game that also tells our Lord's good news until you've actually done it yourself.

Just like Ashley started up these message boards to help blast the myth that "all anime is bad", part of my reason for making The Traveller's Guide was to bust the myth that "all 'Christian' video games are bad". So instead of sitting around complaining, why aren't you speaking well of those of us who are at least trying to do a good job? I'm not letting this work-in-progress that the Lord inspired me to start more than 12 years ago go ignored!

Thank you in advance for your time; I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Ky Kiske]

alot of Christian game suffer from poor funding.
Companies don't want to invest money in them because they don't feel like they sell well.
However I think the best bet is for like an allegorical game that has strong christian elements but not Christian lingo.
That may receive funding.
I dunno I think they could do an RPG but you have to wonder about other genres.

I mean what is the point of a christian racing
Gamer: "Dude I just got cut off by Mother Theresa"

or basketball game
Announcer: "St. Paul from the top of the key! Money Baby!"

or Fighting
Announcer:"Hyper Cross Combo Finish! KO! Micheal the Archangel Wins!"

Or Survival Horror
Character: "The Demons...They are out to get me!"
Gamer: "dude it kinda stinks the only weapon I have is holy water"

and definately nothing like Tenchu
Instruction Manuel: Your name Sister Nancy Claire. Your Mission to kill the devil using any means possible.

Metal Gear:
Bronze Snake: Colonel Operation Moses is underway.
Colonel: Snake press the action button to pray. Your objective is not to be seen by enemy soldier. However if you are spotted....CONVERT THEM.
Bronze Snake: Understood Snake out.

I mean let's face it guys some Christian game just won't work.
But I actually could see an awesome Christian RPG being made.
In fact I actually have an idea for one.

[Psycho Ann]

Ah, need to get this out of my system before I go back to packing...

As someone actually IN the Christian game developing scene where I know a lot of the background (and people) to the major Christian games already out there, I'll have to agree that it's not cool to lump all Christian games together--however, I agree on what makes a Christian game suck.

All I can say is: be patient. We're still a growing industry and little by little we are getting there as more interest in... let say, 'moral-centered' games start to saturate the scene. You might not think it's happening, but as someone privy to all the negotiations and capital searching done behind-the-scenes I can tell you it definitely is starting.

You'll be surprised how many powerful companies are headed by Christians just waiting to fund a really good idea. And really how many seemingly secular high-end animation/effect studios are headed by Christians waiting to help out but only for the stuff they find can match up to the general standard. This is good, because it filters most of the crap before they reach the wider Christian market or even the secular market.

I can't leak out much info due to NDA contracts, but I can tell you what the majority of you guys wish to find in a 'Christian' RPG game that is geared towards the secular market is already in pre-production. It might not be the best, or even satisfactory, but it'll definitely be the first that will open a path for others as a stepping stone. Which is basically what all these Christian games already out there are acting as : a stepping stone for something greater.

So, keep up the dream and try not to be too cynical (the Lord knows I definitely am for a lot of the Christian games out there). Who knows, maybe it's your idea one day that will be the breakthrough Christian gaming needs.

Another thing, it'll help the scene a lot if you stay supportive while not taking off your gamer's hat. Bashing them won't do as much as giving constructive feedback on how to make it--not nessecessarily (I know I speeled taht worng) more 'secular'--more engaging and fun (and not incredibly, stupendously, amazingly boring).

The lack of 'realism' (coughviolencegorecough) isn't really what needs to be more in Christian games. It's really just good concepts and gameplay that is Christ-centered. Be critical, but not judgmental. If there's a difference. Yeah.

My two cents as an 'insider' ^^. For those curious, my official title is Lead 2D Art Director for Brethren Entertainment. And no, the 'happy anime Christian children's game' (which is exactly what it is--you guys aren't aged 8-12 so don't fret about it) featured on the site isn't the RPG I was talking about.

[Fsiphskilm]

WOAH

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I love that racing game in heaven idea, Volt! Awesome!

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote]T

[TheMelodyMaker]

Just typing this up quick before I head off to work... I apologize if I sounded short with you all when I made my post last night, and hope you'll forgive me. -_-

those who complain see room for improvement. I completely forgot about your game, But the point here is : how many people are working on the traveler's guide? And how much funding is it getting?

$ = features, good graphics engine, more workers.
On the other hand... Melody maker has a point, you can't buy heart and soul. And true christians of all people (who are the most passionate on earth) would make great game makers.

That's right... I'm working on it all by myself, and I already have all the tools I need to get the job done -- so no funding necessary. Part of the reason I'm so slow getting it done is that finding the time to do it around my already busy schedule isn't easy. ^_^;; But so far, I've been getting it done... ^_^

[uc pseudonym]

I apologize if I have ever seemed overly negative in this thread. Though I have no art skill and programming skill under professional level, I do believe that good Christian games are possible, and I would love to see them exist.

However, I don't feel some genres should be made "Christian". In response to the Volt / Ky Kiske thing (welcome to the latter, by the way), I feel that this merely points out how irrelevant the Christianity of such games would be. For example, even if the racing game is set in heaven, it could have exactly the same features even if it was completely secular. The only difference in it being made by Christians is that we wouldn't have poor theology regarding said heaven, but that would likely be minimal in any case.

What I feel is this: don't attach the "Christian" label to games with essentially no philosophy. That's meaningless. Now, if a Christian company wants to make a racing game, I have no problem with that. But it would be a racing game made by Christians, not really a Christian racing game.

And after that, I'll calm down a bit and make "Bible Sports" like basketball, tennis, racing, only with Bible Charecters.

I realize the nature of your comment, but the nature of your statement overwhelms my rational: please no, not themed sports games.

"And now, welcome to... Moses Tennis!"
"Itsa me! Moases! Mama mia!"

[Kkun]

Ah, need to get this out of my system before I go back to packing...

As someone actually IN the Christian game developing scene where I know a lot of the background (and people) to the major Christian games already out there, I'll have to agree that it's not cool to lump all Christian games together--however, I agree on what makes a Christian game suck.

All I can say is: be patient. We're still a growing industry and little by little we are getting there as more interest in... let say, 'moral-centered' games start to saturate the scene. You might not think it's happening, but as someone privy to all the negotiations and capital searching done behind-the-scenes I can tell you it definitely is starting.

You'll be surprised how many powerful companies are headed by Christians just waiting to fund a really good idea. And really how many seemingly secular high-end animation/effect studios are headed by Christians waiting to help out but only for the stuff they find can match up to the general standard. This is good, because it filters most of the crap before they reach the wider Christian market or even the secular market.

I can't leak out much info due to NDA contracts, but I can tell you what the majority of you guys wish to find in a 'Christian' RPG game that is geared towards the secular market is already in pre-production. It might not be the best, or even satisfactory, but it'll definitely be the first that will open a path for others as a stepping stone. Which is basically what all these Christian games already out there are acting as : a stepping stone for something greater.

So, keep up the dream and try not to be too cynical (the Lord knows I definitely am for a lot of the Christian games out there). Who knows, maybe it's your idea one day that will be the breakthrough Christian gaming needs.

Another thing, it'll help the scene a lot if you stay supportive while not taking off your gamer's hat. Bashing them won't do as much as giving constructive feedback on how to make it--not nessecessarily (I know I speeled taht worng) more 'secular'--more engaging and fun (and not incredibly, stupendously, amazingly boring).

The lack of 'realism' (coughviolencegorecough) isn't really what needs to be more in Christian games. It's really just good concepts and gameplay that is Christ-centered. Be critical, but not judgmental. If there's a difference. Yeah.

My two cents as an 'insider' ^^. For those curious, my official title is Lead 2D Art Director for Brethren Entertainment. And no, the 'happy anime Christian children's game' (which is exactly what it is--you guys aren't aged 8-12 so don't fret about it) featured on the site isn't the RPG I was talking about.

Brethren has to do with Cactus which has to do with Redemption TCG which I used to play, so I'm down for that. Then, Casting the Shadows looks like it could potentially rock just from what little, tiny bit I could find on your company's website. I'm going to definitely be following that...

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="u

[skynes]

I think there's a lot of room in RPG development. Final Fantasy is one of the biggest RPGs and if you look at its main story, you can see a fair bit of religion and mythology mixed in there. EVERY Summon has connections to a religion or myth, yet noone complains. So why couldn't we do the same? Make an RPG with a unique system and a Christian story.

MelMak, I too forgot about your game (oopsie), I do look forward to its completion

[Fsiphskilm]

Becau

[Chosen Raven]

All I can say is: be patient. We're still a growing industry and little by little we are getting there as more interest in... let say, 'moral-centered' games start to saturate the scene. You might not think it's happening, but as someone privy to all the negotiations and capital searching done behind-the-scenes I can tell you it definitely is starting.

How long do you think it will take for us to start seeing the results of this? Christians have been developing games for years(over a decade), and the only game that has come close to the quality of secular games was Exodus. Brethren Entertainment looks like it has some promising titles, excluding Victory at Hebron.

You'll be surprised how many powerful companies are headed by Christians just waiting to fund a really good idea. And really how many seemingly secular high-end animation/effect studios are headed by Christians waiting to help out but only for the stuff they find can match up to the general standard. This is good, because it filters most of the crap before they reach the wider Christian market or even the secular market.

Well that's definitely encouraging. I'll have to see if this bears good fruit before I eleminate my cynical pessimism, though.

The lack of 'realism' (coughviolencegorecough) isn't really what needs to be more in Christian games. It's really just good concepts and gameplay that is Christ-centered.

Gameplay is most important(unless we're talking RPGs)but the fact is violence can enhance gameplay. I'm not talking just blood and gore, but bloodless, martial arts based violence as well. Someone's enjoyment of a game can be increased by a well executed combo or a well planned out action scene. People like violence, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that(unless the violence is directed at those who don't deserve it...I love Devil May Cry 3 to death, but you couldn't pay me to play Grand Theft Auto). The Bible speaks positively of David' Mighty Men and describes their violent actions in detail.

For those curious, my official title is Lead 2D Art Director for Brethren Entertainment.

That's cool. I do like your art.

[MasterDias]

Because Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft won't allow it.

I think it's completely stupid but they don't allow religion in games.

There was a game a while back that made a religious refference and was PULLED OFF the shelves. Never saw it again...

I don't recall any rule that disallowed religion in games. Those old Wisdom Tree
games were on NES/SNES/GEN as well as PC.

[Yojimbo]

[quote="skynes"]I think there's a lot of room in RPG development. Final Fantasy is one of the biggest RPGs and if you look at its main story, you can see a fair bit of religion and mythology mixed in there. EVERY Summon has connections to a religion or myth, yet noone complains. So why couldn't we do the same? Make an RPG with a unique system and a Christian story.

MelMak, I too forgot about your game (oopsie), I do look forward to its completion ]

Because those are just creatures and gods of mythology. In the case of most of them dead religions like Grecco Roman, Nordic, Shinto, etc. Sure Shiva and Gilgamesh are Hindu and in there but really the gods and creatures in FF are totally taken out of context of the religion. Their names and their appearance somewhat are just taken out and placed in the context of the game.

Volt there is no decree out there from the Big Three that says they can't make religious games. Like I pointed out there are tons of religious references in games and not just in Final Fantasy. It's really up to the execs of secular game companies of whether they want to include certain religious undertones. Obviously we shouldn't expect full on Christian games from secular companies. They have to make something economically feasible and able to, in this day and age of multi million dollar projects, reach a broad audience. And we can't fault them for that it's there livelihoods and jobs on the line. Christian undertones like forgiveness over revenge, unconditional love, putting others before yourself, all that good stuff are things that have been in secular games and I hope we can see more them.

[Myoti]

Well, Psycho Ann, I'd say it defientely looks promising, so let's hope and pray it does well.

Sure Shiva and Gilgamesh are Hindu and in there but really the gods and creatures in FF are totally taken out of context of the religion. Their names and their appearance somewhat are just taken out and placed in the context of the game.

An example is Shiva. In FF Shiva is a female ice-being. In the religion it's a male god of destruction (which I'm sort of using in one of my own stories).

Gameplay is most important(unless we're talking RPGs)but the fact is violence can enhance gameplay. I'm not talking just blood and gore, but bloodless, martial arts based violence as well. Someone's enjoyment of a game can be increased by a well executed combo or a well planned out action scene. People like violence, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that(unless the violence is directed at those who don't deserve it...I love Devil May Cry 3 to death, but you couldn't pay me to play Grand Theft Auto). The Bible speaks positively of David' Mighty Men and describes their violent actions in detail.

Like I said before, one of my games I'm planning on doing will be based directly from Joshua, and it'll have violence, but not like the level of "Kill Bill" or anything. Mostly just slashing, stabbing, and the usual sprays of blood, but that's not the most important part of the game. What is will be the gameplay, which I must make sure to do right (unlike many games out there today).

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="Maste

[Ky Kiske]

"And "ShowTime BasketBall" already has Moses in it. It's awesome, they've all got big bobble heads."

Man you right I remember that.
Moses was the bomb!
Well heck anything starring Moses will succeed.

[Chosen Raven]

After the SNES, GEN, era, Religous games were NOT allowed by Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft or Sega. THAT is official.

Well, that explains why all the Christian games I've seen have been for the PC. Maybe the restriction is beginning to fade a bit. The Bible Game is coming out for the PS2 and it doesn't get more overtly religious than that.

[Joshua Christopher]

Religion not allowed in games? That's BS.

How many games have strong religious concepts? MANY, just not Christianity. A lot of games support Taoist or buddhist ideas. Most people seem to only think of Christianity/Judaism as religion.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

Hm...so a company connected to the people responsible for Redemption is working on a Christian RPG. That's definately got me interested--I really enjoyed the Redemption game when I played it (although I have a difficult time finding players of games I like in my area, so I eventually stopped), so I'm hopeful it'll be good. ^_^

And I wouldn't say that NO religious references are allowed in console games. I know they must be strict about it, but they certainly let Tales of Symphonia FILL their game with references to Christianity and other religions (no matter how twisted a picture they painted). Angels, characters saying they need to cleanse themselves of sins, a preist praying a warpped version of the Lord's Prayer ("Our Mother who art in heaven...")...again, it wasn't all positive, and while some of their themes supported Christian beliefs there was a lot against Christian beliefs as well...BUT they talked about that sort of thing quite a bit...so I think it shows an openess to talking about subjects relating to that. A game with 'appliciblity' a 'la Tolkien (although he wasn't trying to convert people) could maybe be a push in the right direction.

[Fsiphskilm]

Ok, le

[Tommy]

Seriously, look at Grandia II and FFX. They are religions but not Christian.

Christianity isn`t even a religion it`s a 'relationship' with God. A Religion is just something you do repeatidly. You don`t have to go to Church to be a Christian. Saying you`re a Christian because you go to church is like saying you`re a car because you`re in a garage. It`s stupid.

Saying Christian games aren`t allowed on PS2 and Gamecube and so forth really gets me PO`d. Let`s just allow people blowing other people`s heads off to be on our systems. That`s just stupid.

Why can`t Christian games be on consoles? Give me a good excuse. It might be a good influnce, right? Whatever, those companies are full of crap.

[Yojimbo]

Ok, let me say this another way.

#) No ->HARD-CORE<- religious games are Allowed on CONSOLE systems.

#) no one owns the PC, so you can make whatever you want for it

#) Religous games ARE ALLOWED but NOT for CONSOLES

#) a Game with a few Religous refferences does not make it a relgious game

Those are the rules, I didn't make them.

Yeah you're right there now that you've phrased that differently.

[uc pseudonym]

That's not moses, that's mario.

Yes, that is Mario, and it should stay just Mario.

And "ShowTime BasketBall" already has Moses in it. It's awesome, they've all got big bobble heads.

Alright, I'll admit that concept has some worth.

Most people seem to only think of Christianity/Judaism as religion.

That is true, and it is possible they're essentially using that definition. It's not far from the way that basically only Christians can be considered religiously intolerant...

[MorwenLaicoriel]

Well, that's because we're one of the few religions these days that say "THIS is truth". Hinduism calls themselves "one of the truths", for example. They're really sort of 'anything goes' in hinduism, at least from what I've seen in India. Even Jesus is simply considered to be 'one of the gods' by Hindus in India. Saying you believe in Jesus as a god isn't serious to even the more hard-core hindus...only once you get baptised do people start to get offended, it seems.

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="Tom

[Myoti]

It's like the "Joshua" idea I had. Basically, I just tell the whole story with lots of action and fighting and reference God in it (which has been done in some secular games), then just so happen to have it written somewhere that this is biblically-based.

BTW, guess what's actually coming on GBA soon? "Bible Trivia". Please, no more...

[Tommy]

Volt, you make a good point and that whole Revelation idea is not bad. Do it!
I`m serious it actually works. After what Myoti just said, I want to bash my head into a brick wall. Releasing a game called "Bible Trivia" is like realesing a new flavor of Kool-Aid called "Poison" kool-aid. only abusive parents will buy that Koolaid and only Bible Freaks will buy that game. It Will not Sell at all.

And the abusive parent thing is pure humor so don`t hold it against me.