How do y'all feel about corporal punishment?

[Turbocat]

I'm curious because my husband and I are trying to develop our discipline strategy for our children. I was spanked as a child, but most of the time it was inappropriately used by my mom (Hitting in anger, not really disciplining) - and it was ineffective. However, I know many Christian families utilize corporal punishment.

[Ashley]

I'm a child of parents who were firm believers in it, as my rear will attest. I'm definately for it...not to the point of child abuse, of course, and the parent needs to be capable of self-control, but the principle itself is pretty essential to raising a well mannered kid, IMO.

[Lochaber Axe]

My theory of why spanking is affective is the threat factor. After a few years of "displinary" (I cant spell tonight ) spanking a kid he will figure that he is crossing a line and stop. To me it really doesn't work with time outs because its not harsh enough, a kid will forget a time out but there is little chance he will forget a nice spanking.

[supa dupa ninja]

I started a similar thread on a very different forum many moons ago.
yes, I am a believer of the old rod.
hitting a child is good, but not to the point of embarasment and physical abuse. I loved my mom because she taught me respect and manners, through some spanking (not really hard).

on a different note, I was listening on our car radio about three days ago. the deejay told a story about a boy in tenessee, who back talks to his mom and calls her foul names. the mom soon exploded, told her son every time she has to pick up one of his clothes he shall pay her back per clothes.
so its time to pay up: the mom gets a $20 bill and a note that says "good job mom!"

[inkhana]

Well, it worked ON me, so I guess it works FOR me...LOL

[Michael]

You should, and I'd go so far as to say that if you don't, you're not raising that kid biblically. After all, God disciplines us. I was spanked all through out my childhood and am still disciplined, and it's saved my family from much grief and despair. You must do it out of love though.

[MillyFan]

I'm opposed to it, the same reason I'm opposed to yelling and screaming. All of those are "effective," yet it is too easy to slip into cruelty with any of these methods. It's a temptation, IMHO-and it reinforces the idea that authority is about control and violence.

I'm probably never having kids, (and you're all breathing a big sigh of relief now ) but I'm totally opposed to spanking-and I'm also opposed to yelling and threatening.

I was only spanked like twice in my life-however my father always yelled, threatened, belittled-LOL, I lived my entire years from 12 to 18 under the threat "I'm calling the doctor and taking you to the mental hospital," when I so much as openly disagreed or openly showed any real individuality, that I was anything different than when I was younger.

I never was sent to the hospital or forcibly medicated (I had depression and anxiety, not like constantly being made to feel like a burden and worthless didn't make it worse) despite the threats, but. . .living under that threat deprived me of a lot of things, even more than the illnesses did.

Sorry if I really made you all sad.

[Fsiphskilm]

Well, i though this was about

[true_noir_chloe]

I'd like to give you a hug Millyfan. That's really sad.

Please read, a real mom speaking:
I've had kids for a while. And to be honest, I have never spanked my daughter, and she is wonderful. I, unfortunately bought into the spanking argument by so many Christian authorities. Since when did Christ go around spanking and hitting people? When my son was young I spanked him and probably handled it inappropriately. I stopped spanking him at five.

If I did it all over again, I wouldn't have spanked either child. I would use the method Jesus used. There's a really good book for a young parent, like yourself Turbocat. Please read this before you read Dobson or anyone else who believes in corporal punishment. "How to Really Love Your Child" by Ross Campbell, M.D. He's a Christian and now that I have older children, I've read his "How to Really Love Your Teenager." It has helped out tremendously on mending my son's heart from feeling unloved when he was small.

I have one opinion, and ultimately your husband and you will have to pray over this very strongly. But, I believe if you truly treat your child the way Christ treats us and use firmness, not violence, you will see that it works out in the end. I have always strongly believed in teaching my children God's word and his love for me and I think it has rubbed off when I watch them and how they interact with others.

Take it from the mom. I'll pray for your future family, Turbo.

[true_noir_chloe]

I need to give a hug to SouthernSun too.

[Gypsy]

I remember several conversations I've had about this and these are my thoughts:

I was spanked as a kid. Yelling did not work. Scolding in a firm, yet gentle voice did not work. I laughed at the idea of time-outs. However, my parents were always very, very careful to never spank me out of anger. A word from the "spanking spoon" was the only thing that made me understand that I was really in trouble. I only got hit out of anger once, and although it doesn't justify it - I was sure as heck asking for it. *laughs* you know how when you're a teenager and your rotten attitude is attached to your mouth? Yeah, I would have backhanded me too.

But, my youngest brother was different. All you had to do was look at him funny, and he'd start crying and apologizing.

So, I guess it all depends on the kid. I highly disagree with the idea that one form of discipline works for all children.

However, this is coming from a 20 year old who has no real idea about child raising. I do know that I'd be even worse shape if my parents, shall we say, "spared the rod"?

[MillyFan]

I think it depends on the parents as much or more than on the child. There are some people that should NOT tempt themselves with using intimidation or violence over others in any form-because they cannot control the power they feel from such actions.

Just my ten yen LOL. -^.^-

[Bobtheduck]

I wish my parents had disciplined me MORE... I don't know if I'll be spanking, but I'm certainly being a little tighter on some discipline than my parents were...

Milly= I'm sorry that happened, but that actually makes a good point for MY case even though that is a flaw in communication if I'm only listening to get my point across and not actually listen...

I believe in discipline, and, say, a kid is about to touch a stove, you slap the kid's hand... You do need to associate pain with that action, but a slap on the hand is better than potentially burning their fingerprints off... Do something that's painfull but not damaging, so as to keep them from doing something much more damaging than a slapped hand or a red butt... I think the logic can be applied further as well... Never without explanation, never without reconciliation immediately afterword...

[true_noir_chloe]

My mom never spared the rod with me. And I know I'm the person I am today because of how my mom treated me and loved me, more than because she spanked me, and even broke a train track on my bottom. She never beat me, but I have a feeling I was probably a cheeky kid like Gypsy implies in her post, since I was spanked the most out of five siblings.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it." Prov. 22:6

I believe this verse is the verse of how Christ wants us to discipline our children, with firmness and truth. I know I have a radical view from the rest of the Christian church today. I believe the Old Testament rod verses - I counted around three - are for that age and time. And these verses are always followed by the remark to "discipline" your child. What is discipline? Is it spanking? When Christ says our Father disciplines us, do you think he's coming down from Heaven and spanking us? What does it mean? I think you should seriously ask this question for the church today.

Sorry I went on a tangent again.

[Bobtheduck]

God doesn't spank us, but he doesn't send us to our rooms or send us to bed without dessert either... Not literally, anyhow, but in this same line of logic, I think that he does "spank" us figuratively... We often get disciplined in painfull ways because that's what helps clean us out... We do get "spanked" and we also get "sent to our rooms" or have our "dessert" taken away from us... It would take a long time to explain all of that, but I think at least some of you will understand what I meant by that...

[true_noir_chloe]

I am in awe of how many people without children feel so strongly about spanking. I felt the same way when I was in my 20s. It is the Christian thing to do, isn't it?

[Eldatari]

Hmmm - I believe spanking is the only thing that works on some children - I agree, it really depends on the child. For my little brother, example. He doesn't mind sitting in the corner a bit, he doesn't feel bad when he's lectured at - spanking seems to be the only effective method.

I know, as a child, one punishment was vastly more effective than any of the others my parents tried. That was writing bible verses a set number of times - like for lying once, I had to write this bible verse about not lying out 500 times. It made me feel remorseful for my actions, not just the fact that I was caught. And I remembered the verse, next time I was tempted to lie.

[Straylight]

I think it is a right and proper thing to do (parts of the Bible teach about it). However, never in anger, and that's where my family fell down a LOT of the time.

That Bible verse one is awesome!

[ShiroiHikari]

I used to talk back a lot... I know I got spanked, but I don't remember how frequently.

I don't really want to have kids. But...I agree with whoever said that the method of punishment depends on the kid. I know time outs and lectures don't work on my nephews. Actually, nothing seems to work on those kids...o.O

[Bobtheduck]

I know, as a child, one punishment was vastly more effective than any of the others my parents tried. That was writing bible verses a set number of times - like for lying once, I had to write this bible verse about not lying out 500 times. It made me feel remorseful for my actions, not just the fact that I was caught. And I remembered the verse, next time I was tempted to lie.

I know of a guy that did something similar... A guy that every time his kids would do something wrong... In addition to their punishment, they would have to read psalm 51 out lout a bunch of times... Also, other chapters (not just individual words) I guess he liked that one because it was david showing remorse...

[LorentzForce]

it works on smart kids; they learn fast. but it doesn't work on less able kids; they learn to ignore the purnishment, not the lesson.

spanking isn't often good, because not many kids have IQ levels over 120.

funny thing is though, i was never sent to my room for doing something wrong. in fact, i was ordered NOT to go into my room when i did something wrong. probably because i can spend ages and ages playing in my room that i actually enjoy. sleeping, playing computers, make Lego things, listen to music, all in a neat little package...

oh, and i can control how much i eat. so desserts don't really matter to me. not like there are desserts in the first place anyway.

[Technomancer]

Corporal punishment should be an option, but used very sparingly. Little children aren't little adults and don't have fully developed thought processes, a calm and reasoned explanation won't always work. There is however, a line between discipline and abuse (I've known far too many kids from homes that preferred the latter) and crossing that line is worse than counterproductive.

I was rarely spanked- more often I'd get a cold face wash (If I'd throw a tantrum, I'd be picked up and have my head shoved under the cold water tap on full blast, it'd shut you up pretty quick).

[Turbocat]

Thanks for all the comments y'all...

MillyFan and SouthernSun...I understand how yall feel...

My mom never left a physical bruise on me...but she left plenty of emotional ones. That's a good point, MillyFan, the authority and power can be too much for some people to handle. I confess I don't think I can handle spanking my children...lots of anger built up from my own childhood that I'm still working through. If we do wind up spanking, I think Jim should handle it. (He's the 'gentle but firm' type all the way!)

Anyhow, our goal is not to have to spank at all or as little as possible (I don't define slapping a hand to avoid a more harmful effect as spanking though) instead to use consistent, firm, loving discipline. Although if Jessica turns out like Gypsy... (jk!) T_N_C thanks for the book recommendation!

Actually, I'm curious about another issue, which might be more relevant to the teens and young people here- what do you think about 'tough love?' Any of you experience it and did it turn out to be a positive thing? I wish my grandmother used a little bit more tough love on my mom and my mom used more on my little sister...now my mom is 47 and still lives off her mother and runs over her ...same thing with my sister.

[true_noir_chloe]

Tough love? You don't want to get me started. Are you going to start another thread?

I'd suggest reading the books I mentioned earlier by Dr. Ross Campbell, especially, "How to Really Love Your Teenager." I mean it. I wish some adults would read his book before they start whacking away at their kids without becoming the Christian they should be - with a heart like Christ.

Parenting is all about, us, the adults heart, and how close we are to God. We are the ones who teach our children about Christ. Believe me, it's amazing how firm and in control you can be as a parent if you just start your day with some prayer and devotions. There are so many wise choices we need to make, and they don't always work. It's a constant job, like working with children as a teacher at school, mixed with being a pastor, then add in some Christian counseling. Parenting is 24/7 work, but it is also 24/7 blessing.

I suppose if you need to spank kids, then you do - I don't think God would be angry if you did it wholeheartedly, thinking it's the way you should be. There are some children who just need a good spanking. I thought my son did, but then I found out he had a neurological disorder that made him never listen to me. I started to work with him with a great measure of eye contact balanced with hugs and love when he did things right. The counter-measure works immensely in a child's mind - more positive than negative.

[Lochaber Axe]

Lucky for me I have im intelligent and mature enough to not listen to the bull that peer pressure ascerts what is right. But many of my age group does not have the self will to stay out of things they shouldn't like drugs and other immoral pratices. That is where tough love comes about, you must be firm of might and keep in mind that you are right. You must not back down, give in, withdraw, retreat, or give up any territory whatso ever (sounds like an old war movie ...sorry). This is your teens life and experimentation could ruin everything for them.

And remember this comes from someone who is facing the rebellious mindset right now. I bless God for his gift of my mental maturity.

[Turbocat]

Tough love? You don't want to get me started. Are you going to start another thread?

I'd suggest reading the books I mentioned earlier by Dr. Ross Campbell, especially, "How to Really Love Your Teenager." I mean it. I wish some adults would read his book before they start whacking away at their kids without becoming the Christian they should be - with a heart like Christ.

Parenting is all about, us, the adults heart, and how close we are to God. We are the ones who teach our children about Christ. Believe me, it's amazing how firm and in control you can be as a parent if you just start your day with some prayer and devotions. There are so many wise choices we need to make, and they don't always work. It's a constant job, like working with children as a teacher at school, mixed with being a pastor, then add in some Christian counseling. Parenting is 24/7 work, but it is also 24/7 blessing.

I suppose if you need to spank kids, then you do - I don't think God would be angry if you did it wholeheartedly, thinking it's the way you should be. There are some children who just need a good spanking. I thought my son did, but then I found out he had a neurological disorder that made him never listen to me. I started to work with him with a great measure of eye contact balanced with hugs and love when he did things right. The counter-measure works immensely in a child's mind - more positive than negative.

Well, when I mentioned tough love, I wasn't referring to spanking...I was referring to not 'bailing out' your teen/young adult when they choose a sinful lifestyle and start to experience the consequences, i.e. not bailing them out of jail for the upteenth time, or even to the extreme of kicking them out of the house when they are into drugs and refuse to go into rehab...

And t_n_c, I do plan on getting that book.

[Bobtheduck]

Whacking away at their kids... There is a difference between spanking and abuse... Spanking is not abuse when done correctly... As for the book, I may check it out, but I don't think that person OR doctor dobson know how to raise everyone's kids, but rather we should listen to those we know personally who are older and more experienced at it for advice but not commands... Reading it in a book leaves no room for questions, which are required for a learning process like that...

I know to look at comparisons between kids who were spanked (but not "abused" not "whack(ed) away at.") and kids who were not at all... However, these obviously were not controlled experiments... One mother didn't even use any form of negative reinforcement because she had it pounded in her brain so much by the schools and by society that negative reinforcement of any kind is wrong... That somehow you'll be able to bribe a kid into behaving... It CERTAINLY didn't work in her case... Her kid was a brat...

I think that a lot of the way a kid acts is dependent on the way the parents act... Kids are mimics, they do what they see, and if they see parents who love Jesus, love each other, and love their kids and are happy, excited, determined, patient, and under control, the kids will be much more likely to be as well... They will still throw tantrums every once and a while, and still disobey, but interactive example is a more powerful tool than any discipline... That does not mean that discipline, even physical discipline, is never needed... It just needs to be the last on the list...

sorry if my first thing sounded mocking... It's just a thing I have with semantics... Even though everyone gives into semantics and if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to communicate (I think that is called morphology, but I could be getting my terms mixed up... which happens a lot)

[true_noir_chloe]

Bob, I totally agree with your third paragraph. We are the examples. Sorry I'm being so dogmatic guys. I am against tough love, btw. It usually does more harm than good. (Zipping lip and I'm not saying more. I know I'm going to go off on another tangent.)

[Nia-chan]

I say whack the toodle twerps. Just kidding! I think that if they're generally being an all out brat, then they should get in trouble of course. But if I were a parent, I would only do it for big things, like insulting a parent or going somewhere they're not supposed to, or something like that.

[Michael]

It's true that misused authority is wrong, but it's also true that unused authority is wrong to. My father came from a broken home-and even though his dad beat him-it was just as terrible that he wasn't there for him.