Episode III "Seen It" Thread ***SPOILERS***

[bigsleepj]

horrible directing - Ok... since when was it proffesional to use power-point presentation like slide transitions to swith between scenes?

I quite agree with you on this point. These have struck me as ridiculous every time I've seen them.

Lucas got that from Akira Kurosawa. You'll see that some of his movies (Seven Samurai for instance) uses swipes. Even the original Star Wars movies had them. Strangely it did not bother me much, actually. I hardly noticed it. But I can understand why not everyone would like it.

[termyt]

Very interesting, but how on earth did Anakin learn it?

Anakin's whole reason for joining the Dark Side was to learn how to extend life after death. I don't think it's a big stretch for him to have figured out how to do it, too.

As for the swipes - it's a part of Star Wars style. They may have been cooler in the 70's, but it's still a part of the style of the series. Anyway, I think there are much bigger problems with the movie than Lucas's choices for scene transitions.

[Arnobius]

Anakin's whole reason for joining the Dark Side was to learn how to extend life after death. I don't think it's a big stretch for him to have figured out how to do it, too.

As for the swipes - it's a part of Star Wars style. They may have been cooler in the 70's, but it's still a part of the style of the series. Anyway, I think there are much bigger problems with the movie than Lucas's choices for scene transitions.

Yes, but I think the emperor was lying to him. At any rate, Palpatine saif it was a lost skill that perhaps they could rediscover together, so I don't think that story had any bearing on Qui Gon's discovery or Anakin's unexplained birth because that Sith was long dead...

[quote="Ashley"]On the contrary, I think it shows just had brutal he became]
I'm talking about the "living on in the force" skill in "Sith." It cheapened the redemptive feel of the end of Jedi. If they had cut the bit of Qui Gon out completely, it would have been better.

[Scribs]

I too agree that R2 should have gotten the wipe. For continuitys sake. Also, why the heck did they give him all those extra powers in these earlier movies. Why cant we have continuity People! CONTINUITY!

[ShiroiHikari]

I too agree that R2 should have gotten the wipe. For continuitys sake. Also, why the heck did they give him all those extra powers in these earlier movies. Why cant we have continuity People! CONTINUITY!

Sigh. I agree.

[bigsleepj]

I too agree that R2 should have gotten the wipe.

I can understand why they are in the new movies. C3P0 and R2D2 were inspired (admittedly) by two peasants from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" - a story told from the viewpoint of peasants rather than Samurai and princesses. They were the lowest in the Japanese order, just like droids are in Star Wars. The first two Star Wars movies are more or less "told" through their eyes - they're the ones who bring Obi Wan & Luke together, etc even if they're not in all the scenes with Luke, Han and so forth. Even in the later Star Wars they're seperated and always with a party in one way or another (but not always in every scene like the Battle-scene in "The Empire Strikes Back"). But that's more or less the logic of the early Star-Wars movies.

This pattern is in the new movies, but the droids are not a thread like in the original movies, but rather just an ingredient which is a fatal flaw- Lucas wanted them there for consistancy but they're presence are so much smaller that they actually burden the narrative (especially in episodes 1 and 3). George wanted them in so that (in a cheating fashion) it can still be told from their "viewpoint"...but you can't argue that from the new ones. There presence is required but is not naturally worked into the story.

Also, why the heck did they give him all those extra powers in these earlier movies. Why cant we have continuity People! CONTINUITY!

I agree with you there! Nothing vexed me more than R2 zipping past us like a remote control racer. Oh, and those rockets...

[Tommy]

Ok it took me 20 minutes just to read 5 pages from this thread so don`t make me feel like a fool when i write this.

1. Was anyone actually surprized that Palpatine was Darth Sidius? I can remember when me and my Dad watched Episode 1 about 5 years ago he told me to look at Palpatine`s face and hear his voice then look at Darth Sidius and listen to what he says for the few seconds they show him. I`m like: "Dad, it`s that old dude that looks really innocent." Then again, my dad told me he figured out Vader was Luke`s father when the first saw New Hope. That was before he saw Empire Strikes Back. What kind of fool would watch them backwards....oh wait, Lucas forced us to do so. Then again, Episodes 1,2, and 3 required more special effects.

2. If Episode 3, was the last episode, after Vader screams : "NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
It would be cool if he just cut Palpatine`s head off and then ruled the galaxy himself and before killing him said a line like:
"I joined you for the soul purpose of saving her. By joining you, I killed her!"
Then again, Anakin probably would`ve died if he didn`t join the darkside thanks to "Plan 66."

3. Who know how Palpatine talked about that old Sith Lord that could heal being killed by his apprentice? Was Sidius the apprentice?

4. Sidius reminds me of Satan. Telling you lies, to join his side.

5. Yoda could`ve easily kicked Palpatine`s Joe Brown.

6. Episode III had the best opening scene of any Star Wars movie. Action-Packed!

7. The only character that wasn`t reintroduced was Han Solo. How did he meet Chewie?

8. It would be cool if this movie took place a couple years later, since it would`ve been cool if Boba Fett avenged Jango by killing Mace Swindu.

9. That was really funny when Yoda slammed the guards into the walls.

[Arnobius]

Your points make me remember some stuff...

Well, with Siduous, I thought it was supposed to be obvious, but maybe I just was a good guesser?

If Chewbacca was a important wookie warrior, what's he doing working for some drifting space bum?

[Kkun]

They explain this in the Han Solo Trilogy. After that battle, I presume, Chewbacca was en route to be taken to the spice mines of Kessel. Han ends up freeing Chewbacca through some stuff that happened that I can't remember, so Chewie owed him a life debt for freeing him from slavery.

[blkmage]

The Empire eventually enslaves the Wookiees. Han Solo was a junior Imperial officer at the time and freed Chewie.

The other thing that tipped people off as to Sidious = Palpatine was the fact that they were both played by the same guy, who played Palpatine in Episode VI.

The Star Wars saga is told to a Whill 100 years after the events by R2-D2.

There are a few reasons why R2 may seem to have more gizmos than he did in Episode VI. First of all, he may not have needed them. Second of all, some of parts may have worn down over time. We really don't know what he's been doing for those twenty years between Episodes III and IV.

[Arnobius]

They explain this in the Han Solo Trilogy. After that battle, I presume, Chewbacca was en route to be taken to the spice mines of Kessel. Han ends up freeing Chewbacca through some stuff that happened that I can't remember, so Chewie owed him a life debt for freeing him from slavery.

I remember the trilogy-- I loved "Han Solo at Stars End" and didn't care for the others, but don't remember the aspect of him rescuing Chewie-- the bit of the Imperial trainee was implied though.

Unfortunately, none of these were canon...
And Han would have been maybe 10-15 after that battle, since I understand officially Sith is 19 years before New Hope

[Kkun]

This was in a different trilogy. This is the one written by A.C. Crispin. These detail how Han met Chewie, Lando, got the Falcon, etc. His rescuing Chewie would have been several years, later, you're right about that. My mistake, there. This battle from Episode III at least shows how Chewie fell into the hands of the Empire, which is why I guess I connected the two events.

And why aren't the books canon? I'm pretty sure that George Lucas approves them before they get published.

[Arnobius]

This was in a different trilogy. This is the one written by A.C. Crispin. These detail how Han met Chewie, Lando, got the Falcon, etc. His rescuing Chewie would have been several years, later, you're right about that. My mistake, there. This battle from Episode III at least shows how Chewie fell into the hands of the Empire, which is why I guess I connected the two events.

And why aren't the books canon? I'm pretty sure that George Lucas approves them before they get published.

By canon I meant as officially part of the Star Wars story. As I understood it, Lucas allowed stories to be written, but reserved the right to do whatever he wanted regardless of the books, comics etc. To his credit, he's alowed a lot of stuff to be done if it's not for profit if you ever saw theforce.net

I may have read the other trilogy (or part of it)-- was that where Han and Lando spend the whole book trying to win the Falcon back from each other?

Of the books, I really only liked the Stars End, the original Zahn trilogy, Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the graphic novel where Luke goes to the dark side was barely passable. Then it got to be as bad as the Trek novels...

[Kkun]

In the A.C. Crispin trilogy, I do believe the Falcon changes Han and Lando's hands more than once. I THINK. I haven't read them in a while.

As for the other books, did you read Vector Prime? How could anyone not like R.A. Salvatore writing Star Wars? I mean...the man made the Attack of the Clones book about one hundred percent better than the movie.

[Arnobius]

In the A.C. Crispin trilogy, I do believe the Falcon changes Han and Lando's hands more than once. I THINK. I haven't read them in a while.

As for the other books, did you read Vector Prime? How could anyone not like R.A. Salvatore writing Star Wars? I mean...the man made the Attack of the Clones book about one hundred percent better than the movie.

Salvatore? No, by the time that came out I was pretty much sick of how far the Drizzt Do'Urden books had fallen, and I hated his non D&D books that I tried, so I fell off. Maybe I can look for it.

[Scribs]

Yeah, vector prime and the other NJO (new jedi order) books are really very good. A cut above the other star wars novels (except timothy zahns stuff)

[Arnobius]

Yeah, vector prime and the other NJO (new jedi order) books are really very good. A cut above the other star wars novels (except timothy zahns stuff)

Well so long as it was better than the 3rd and 4th Drizzt trilogies...

[Technomancer]

Well, I finally got around to seeing it myself so I thought I'd throw in my own two bits. Like many people, I have to agree that the acting and dialogue was in many places terrible; the directing wasn't much to write home about either. The effects were by and large quite good, although I wish they wouldn't have done the Tarkin cameo if they couldn't get it right; I mean he looks like Odo for crying out loud!

While it was an alright film, it does also suffer from a few problems relating to plot and logic. Kudos to the Jedi council though for proving Darth Helmet's most famous maxim.

[Arnobius]

[quote="Technomancer"]Well, I finally got around to seeing it myself so I thought I'd throw in my own two bits. Like many people, I have to agree that the acting and dialogue was in many places terrible]
Can you refresh my memory on the maxim? It's been years since I saw that

[Technomancer]

Can you refresh my memory on the maxim? It's been years since I saw that

Evil will always triumph, because good.... is dumb.

[Arnobius]

Evil will always triumph, because good.... is dumb.

yeah, that does seem to fit. The Jedi council didn't strike me as braniacs...

[Kurama]

Well I dont have much to say but I think they where making it up from #2 because it had too much kissy kissy goo goo nonsense in it and I got bored easily! I went yesterday and I was the only one cheering in the theater! ^^; It was sorta imbaressing!

[termyt]

If Chewbacca was a important wookie warrior, what's he doing working for some drifting space bum?

Chewie wasn't an important wookie warrior. As a matter of fact, he's considered a runt by wookie standards. My thought on that is he's hanging out with Yoda for one or both of these reasons:

He already knew Yoda and was part of Yoda's affirmation that he had good relations with the wookies.

He wasn't considered to be all that useful to the wookies in battle because of his relatively small stature, so what better thing is there for him to do then baby-sit a visiting Jedi?

Kudos to the Jedi council though for proving Darth Helmet's most famous maxim.

Amen.

[the_lizardqueen]

I finally saw it last night! I'm still trying to totally process it, but here's a few random thoughts from me:

YODA ROCKS!!!! In my opinion, he stole the movie. Much love to the liddle green guy ^_^

I was pretty dissapointed with the fact that the Wookies hardly had any screentime, Chewie was basically a cameo. And their homeplanet wasn't quite as I pictured it either, though I suppose that my mental image would have looked too much like Endor on steroids. They were on a battlefield too, so maybe the actual forests look different.

I'm still not quite sure about Hayden as Anakin, and although I really wanted to like them, Padme and Anakin wern't really oozing chemistry. I really liked Obi-Wan though. And Palpatine was definitely evil and freaky enough. He should never, ever do a front flip though, that's just...strange.

Speaking of Jedi acrobatics, that has to be one of my main gripes with the new trilogy. In comparison to Sith's duels, A New Hope's Vader vs. Obi-Wan duel starts to look like two old men hitting each other with canes. Which I guess it kinda is...hm. Regardless, I don't seem to recall the Luke vs. Vader duels having quite as much spinning, backflipping, jumping and overall crazy kung-fu action.

I've also officially decided that I want one of those lizards that Obi-Wan was riding. And the Anakin and the younglings scene, during the attack on the temple, was actually pretty shocking. Very much a 'dude...he's evil!' type of scene. And upon witnessing Anakin's injuries on the lava planet, I can see why the movie got a PG-13.

It did seem to come together quite nicely in the end, as it tied to the old trilogy. And it was nice how they ended with Luke and Leia. And I think that that concludes my ramblings.

[Arnobius]

Chewie wasn't an important wookie warrior. As a matter of fact, he's considered a runt by wookie standards. My thought on that is he's hanging out with Yoda for one or both of these reasons:

He already knew Yoda and was part of Yoda's affirmation that he had good relations with the wookies.

He wasn't considered to be all that useful to the wookies in battle because of his relatively small stature, so what better thing is there for him to do then baby-sit a visiting Jedi?


Amen.

I didn't see it that way. He looked to be avout the same size as the others he was with and I figured he was part of Yoda's security team. Maybe the book says otherwise?

[uc pseudonym]

I too agree that R2 should have gotten the wipe. For continuitys sake. Also, why the heck did they give him all those extra powers in these earlier movies. Why cant we have continuity People! CONTINUITY!

I'll add my whole-hearted agreement.

Kudos to the Jedi council though for proving Darth Helmet's most famous maxim.

Quite. Though had Mace Windu been a bit more decisive, everything would have gone quite differently.

[pyro_moogle]

I went at midnight. I loved it. I knew I would. A guy with a vadar suit vs a guy with a jedi was the best part of waiting there. I went there on friday dressed up and had a lightsaber duel with a guy I didn't know. My friend did a documentary the first time I saw it. It was amazing.

[Stephen]

I was thinking about it today. I still think Empire Strikes Back was the best done film. But being the best and being fav at least to me is different. I think of all 6 films, I got the most enjoyment from watching Episode 3. Not sure why, but it really did it for me. And I must say, the scene where Anakin marches on the temple with the clone troopers is probably the most sad/beautiful scene of any of the films. Now, before anyone flames me for saying that. Lemme explain. Before Ep3, we had no idea what single event pushed Anakin to become Vader. Somthing about seeing him do such horrible things out of love...taking love to the point where its wrong...It was just beautiful to me. When you see Anakins eyes go yellow, then the tear. I think that might be my fav scene of any Star Wars film ever.

[termyt]

I didn't see it that way. He looked to be avout the same size as the others he was with and I figured he was part of Yoda's security team. Maybe the book says otherwise?

That's part of Star Wars lore I picked up someplace. I should get my brother to come back to this site. He's the expert in the family.

Speaking of Jedi acrobatics, that has to be one of my main gripes with the new trilogy. In comparison to Sith's duels, A New Hope's Vader vs. Obi-Wan duel starts to look like two old men hitting each other with canes. Which I guess it kinda is...hm. Regardless, I don't seem to recall the Luke vs. Vader duels having quite as much spinning, backflipping, jumping and overall crazy kung-fu action.

According to an interview I saw/read with Mark Hamil, the reason for that is Lucas. In the first trilogy, Lucas's vision of the lightsaber was that it was a very heavy weapon that had to be wielded with two hands. So, all of the saber fighting you see in the first trilogy reflects that. Some of the actors tried to convince Lucas to change his mind because of the freedom it would give them to make more spectacular looking duels, but Lucas wouldn't change his mind. Apparently, something got to him, though, because he changed his mind for the second trilogy. Maybe he watched some old swashbuckling movies and saw how cool the sword fighting looked when the actors could dance around?

And the Anakin and the younglings scene, during the attack on the temple, was actually pretty shocking. Very much a 'dude...he's evil!' type of scene.

I thought it was kind of a cheap way to convince the audience, "Yeah, he's evil, now." I don't object to him doing it, I just wish there was more character development to the story.

[blkmage]

Actually, he begins to change the heavy lightsaber vision after ANH. You'll notice that Vader fights Luke at the beginning with only one hand.

His reasoning for the TPM superduel was that he wanted to show how Jedi fought in their prime. Of course, the fact that Dooku was a powerful old Jedi and Obi-Wan was also an old powerful Jedi doesn't help the glaring differences in dueling style.