First Person Shooters; their relation with Christianity

[LorentzForce]

now, i'm not here to argue. but to give people a food for thought.

i noticed that there were quite a few games talked about in CAA Games Galore. but one thing struck me after some time; where are the FPS?

traditionally, FPS games were made to be violent. yes, because they are to 'shoot' something else, and to shoot something usually meant blood and gore.

is it because of this characteristic of FPS genre that Christians dislike it? or do Christians accept such genre?

it's a matter of perspective. i see it as a genre that won't be out of date for a long time, but also as a source of violence for its audience, especially children below 10.

have anyone played Quake 3? ever seen its visuals? it's 'bloody' awesome. yet, would it affect our relationship with God?

i mean, it's all blood and gore. Q3/Q2/Q1/UT/UT2k3... endless... list of games all have no point in them except annihilating the opponent player be it a person or a computer until they are virtually dead.

the big question i want to as is; should FPS be regarded as a favourible genre in CAA?

i'm hoping i'll stay unbiased.

[Straylight]

As far as positions as concerned, we're here to review anime.. if we moved onto computer games as well, we'd be spreading things a bit thinly...

So i'd say (someone admin/mod correct me if I'm wrong) we have no official stance on it. Part of what we do is provide anime reviews, so we have to have hold a position over these, but for other media, I'd say make your own mind up based upon whether you feel it is the right thing to do as a Christian.

[LorentzForce]

not exactly as a review, but i wanted to know what the general population of CAA feels about knowing/talking about FPS, in general.

[Christianotaku]

I use fps to relax and have fun. FPS`s also develop hand eye cordination.... kinda like ddr. FPS are violent and bloody and gory but so are most movies that my dad watches... SO WHAT




hehehehe:lickbash:

[Ashley]

My personal opinion is that it matters what you're shooting. Aliens vs. humans, if you catch my drift. I'm slightly better with shooting evil aliens come to take over the world because that is of course, fiction. Something about shooting humans changes the matter. Still, FPS make me jumpy and I'm not very good with them, so all together I stay away from most of the lot. Besides, I've never been one for blood and guts, nor pc games.
The one exception I can think of is Metroid Prime. Yes it's FP and yes, it's primarily a shooter (of nasty bugs and disgusting looking lava worms, etc.) , but it's also a challenging puzzle game...one so hard I can't beat it, but meh. You get the idea.
Ok, but about my view on it and the Christian walk. It's a really, really thin line, and a matter of faith I believe. I know it sounds like this is my solution to everything, but it truly is something between you and God. It's a personal thing; I mean, if you can't distinguish between reality and fiction and leave the fiction stuff where it belongs, you don't need to be playing video games of ANY sort...and that's where a parental-like figure needs to step in and determine what's right and what's not.

[inkhana]

Agreed. I also think that it depends on the sheer level of violence involved. For example, in the instance of Metroid Prime (something I'm familiar with) for the most part, when you blast stuff, it just kind of disintegrates on the spot (the exception I can think of at the moment are pirates). Then they fade away. But what do you suppose God is thinking when you hit some soldier dude with some laser that blows him to pieces that lay around? My point is, there can be violence and it not be overly excessive and gross. That's the dividing line to me.

Ashley brings up the point of puzzles, too...that always adds to a game. Otherwise you're just killing stuff.

[uc pseudonym]

First off, I should say I'm not a huge fan of FPS, but that has little to do with being a Chrisitan. However, I suppose that does add a few elements.

For one, FPS are the ultimate training device for learning to shoot a weapon. Police and military forces use special ones to train forces. So you are essentially learning to kill. Then again, if you're a peaceable person, you'll probably never get your hands on a gun. You can use knowledge you learn to hurt people far deeper than bullets, but we don't suggest banning knowledge.

In my opinion (and I'd stress that's all it is), excessive gore and violence is never justified. There's no reason we need to see that. This is old, but would you feel comfortable if Jesus was watching over your shoulder?

[Straylight]

I play Counterstrike which is a pretty nasty one on the blood and gore level, but going on a tangent, there's actually a fair bit of violent content in the Old Testament.

In CS you shoot your friends, so it's a competetive/social thing. If I were wasting lots of time playing CS, I'd feel unhappy if Jesus was looking over my shoulder.

Who knows, God may convict me of it one day. At the moment though, there are some other more serious things he wants to sort out in my life.

[Shinja]

being an avid fps gamer for many years ive seen and played many differant types, and in the end i really dont play the games with gore or blood just because it dosent sit well with me. i dont mind as much blood as gore, mostly because the games with gore are just that, games with gore, and the game play revolves around grusome deaths. "serious sam" is a good exapmle of this and i would not sugest that anyone play it.
if yall have some games that you wnat to know about ill probably be able to tell you where it rates on my violence metter. so you acn avoid the garbage out there.

[Psycho Ann]

I'm a FPS player too (well, ex anyway) and I played CS and Unreal and even in the old days Doom. I used to have fun with friends and just generally blow off steam and stress by directing it by "killing things".

Bad. I know -_-.

But I guess I never really thought about since since "it's just another game". I never really went into that mindset that I'm "killing" something. Could it be satan's strategy to desensitize us to murder, violence, and gore?

Truthfully, I think so. I'm nearly as insensitive as they get now >_<

Thank Him I'm starting to turn around

[Stephen]

*drags dead horse out and kicks it* Personal convictions....if you feel bad about playing a FPS then dont. Personaly, I enjoy playing them...heck Lightbringer and I have played hundreds of rounds in quake....nothing like screaming wooha as your friend hits you in the gut with a rail gun!

[Rashiir]

I think you guys are right...it all depends on the individual's ability to distinguish fiction from reality. But as far as desensitizing goes, wouldn't it be more desensitizing if you kill something and it just dissapears? Or maybe if there's realistic blood and gore you just get used to it...it could go either way...

[madphilb]

Not all FPS are made the same either... for the most part if I'm going to play a FPS it's got to have a bit more substance to it. The exception to that rule for me has been Serious Sam (sorry Shinja, don't think too bad of me ).... In general I'm just not into the whole twitchy thing, but Sam is just good ole make 'em all dead (er... somehow that doesn't sound right in print ).

I'm not totally convinced of the whole "makes you unsensitive to violence" thing. Now if those values aren't hammered into you somewhere else (or if you're still forming those values, i.e. - the young kids who's parents must have missed the ESRB ratings on the games) then that's something else. As one of the people at EB put it, if the kid knows it's wrong to kick the cat, well, he should have enough of a handle on reality to play this (I forget what game it was).

As others have said, much of this is personall conviction. I personally don't play for the blood and gore... If I where to buy any of the Soldier of Fortune games, I'd turn off the gore... it's just not necessary.

One of my personal favoriate FPS games (though First Person Sneaker is a better description) is the Theif series (:drool: Thief 3 is comming ). There, if you turn up the difficulty rating you're not allowed to kill at all, and many people find that it's much better to play the game that way anyway, since either "ghosting" or knocking everyone out draws much less attention.

As for "deathmatch".... I'm personally sorry that Nerf Areana Blast didn't take off better than it did (my copy is loaned to a friend of mine, wonder if they ever played it, hmph)... NAB uses the UT engine and works much like UT (Unreal Tornament), but it's based on Nerf guns and an engery level thingie.

PHIL

[uc pseudonym]

In regard to what Rashiir said, I'd like to point out we have a fallacy on our hands. I need to think of a name for it, because I've noticed it multiple places. No matter which way a game goes, you can argue it either way:

If the game is violent and grusome, it is condemned for being so. But if it isn't that bad, people can say it presents an inaccurate version of reality and desensitizes people.

I think I'm gonna go kick Shatterheart's dead horse...

[Christianotaku]

It helps hand eye cordination and it helps to blow of steam.

and in this city there aint no movie theater so basically its the only thing to do.

and im pretty good at it record 100 frags in 10 minutes

I am the FRAHGMASTAH

[inkhana]

Originally posted by uc pseudonym

If the game is violent and grusome, it is condemned for being so. But if it isn't that bad, people can say it presents an inaccurate version of reality and desensitizes people.

I think I'm gonna go kick Shatterheart's dead horse...

Oh, I understand what you're saying. And you're right. Along with the violence, though, one must question the motives for killing, too. I'll admit, I don't know the plots of 95% of these FPS; I don't play FPS generally speaking. But I'm almost certain that a portion of them have plots which focus solely around killing for killing's sake. The more realistic it is, the more it hits home and colors the thinking of those who aren't guarded against it. That's really the point I was trying to get at.

[ShiroiHikari]

::looks over at Shatterheart, uc pseudonym, and the dead horse:: Mind if I join you guys?

Some people are more susceptible to certain sins than others. So, not everyone is gonna be negatively influenced by games, as a matter of fact I hope most people won't be so silly as to think they can go around shooting people just because they did it in a game once. Maybe if you were five years old...but then again, what parent in their right mind would let a young child play many of today's video games anyway?

As far as violence, and being desensitized and stuff...

I think djnoz said something about violence and the Old Testament. Uh....yeah. Good point... And what about Christ's death??? If that wasn't violent, then I dunno what is. But anyway. Point is, violence is everywhere, this is a cursed world, and we can't hide from that. But, it doesn't make violence, gore, or murder -right- when we humans do it to another living being. I don't think being desensitized is always bad, unless it's to the degree where you have no regard for life. Which is sad, but it happens to people. In a world cursed with sin, it's bound to.

Okay, so that was a bit of a tangent..

Aaanyway...as far as shooting people...Well, that goes back to having enough sense to draw the line between fantasy and reality. I've played a couple of shooters (Time Crisis II, Area 51, and uh...what was the other one? oh well) and for the most part I don't have a problem with them unless they start getting real ugly. Violence is one thing, gore is another. To me, anyway.

[Lightbringer]

(climbs the turnbuckle and drop an elbow on the horse) hey I like Fps'ers for the most part. There are few things that can bother me in video games, if you dont like them or feel like you shouldn't, or evan have a warning you feel you should give, go ahead. And I dont see it so far, but im just going to say it, if somebody posts something contrary let it be. Arguments get stomped right quick around here. Theres nothing wrong with giveing your view point, just dont go over board. k? Theres my two cents
Grabs a chair and joins the fun once more

Lightbringer // Aaron

[LorentzForce]

i see. so that's what everyone thinks too.

i don't have much more to say except i once was totally addicted to FPS. yes, i was one of those playing 8 hours a day. it was around two years ago, few months before CS went retail. or was it even further back? now i'm enough to go in state competitions and won't fall behind too much. still not enough to be totally 1337 in my opinion, but good enough to come first all the time.

it's so sad when i see 12 year old kids play CS. especially on the same server. it's weird seeing kids play against others as if they are their enemy. psychological problem abounds. or is it just me...

now now, i know some, if not most, FPS aren't so bad. there's Deus Ex, Hitman 2, The Thing... all the good games with 'meaning' of killing, not just random fragging.

and Christianotaku, please, if you aren't enough to go in national competitions, go to korea, get sponsorships and such, please don't brag about your scores. score in local servers don't mean anything. i have this agnst against people who do yell around about their scores.

also because i have this stress from making CS maps...

[Christianotaku]

im not talking local im talking against tehey highest setting of bots in ut2003

[uc pseudonym]

I don't know, but I'd distinguish violence in the Bible from violence in games. Then again, some of the violence in the Old Testament is simply that, violence. Plus, reading words that aren't very graphic is a different thing than watching it in full detail.

Of course, if there was a movie on the Bible that covered everything, I wouldn't let little kids see it.

But like someone else said, what matters a good deal is the reason behind it. In Christ's brutal death, we have one of the most key points in the Bible. In the stoning of Stephen, we see early Christian's response to persecution. In the fragging of some guy named jimmydumb83, we have...

So I think the Bible is justified. But I'd like to point out that I've never been condemning FPS. It's good that you guys are giving this thought.

[LorentzForce]

Christianotaku, my Podbots are reconfigured so they turn, shoot, and get a headshot in 1 frame. 1 frame. that's 1/60th of a second, since HL only supports 60Hz display. if i altered it to 85Hz... what are the odds of survival?

yet i still come first. yet i still struggle for the top ranking with other people. why? because i only play with the best.

same story with quake and UT series.

please Christianotaku. playing with bots don't mean anything. only against other people do.

remember, professional gamers can play all day against bots and still achieve perfect scores. maybe except to my podbots...

[Straylight]

How do I play CS against bots? I need some practice ... badly ...

[Ashley]

please Christianotaku. playing with bots don't mean anything. only against other people do.

Hey now, let's keep it friendly folks.

[uc pseudonym]

Much agreed.

[LorentzForce]

*sigh*

i can't help being mean to people who doesn't really know about competitions in leagues. i AM afterall, a gamer AND a developer. i have this weird moral judgement thing when it comes to games and players...

in order to play CS with bots, you must first download the bot installation file. unless you write your own bot, everyone downloads them.

currently, PoDBots are the best out there. do some googling and it'll pop up. 2.5 is the latest version.

then you can play bots by creating a LAN game by yourself. you CAN play with bots in public servers too. just that it lags the system.

[Ashley]

This wasn't meant to be a who's the best at insert game here forum, but more of a "hey, you like this game too?" atmosphere. Let's keep the fighting down to the pixels, okay guys?

[Christianotaku]

hello Ive played in several tournaments so dont sayi dotn know jack also the bots I use were porgrammed specially for me by a friend!! they turn and shoot in the frame settign i choose currently i use 10 frames but i coudl go lower ok. I currently hold title as best colombian ut2003 player.....not to say that im nto humble i lost 3 times before i got the title............I finished in 25th place at the official International unreal tournament 2003 tournament. and still im nto that good compared to some north koreans. you may be better than me but do not underestimate me it could prove deadly.

[Ashley]

I guess I didn't make myself clear. This isn't a who is better thread; brag about your scores somewhere else, and that's meant for everyone. I don't recall Christ telling the Pharisees how He could whoop them in EVERYTHING (and He really could), and a servant is no better than his master, as the analogy goes.

So enough, move on. Anyone hear of any new FPS games coming out? Is the trend only getting bloodier and bloodier, or have games like Metroid Prime made an impact, and more developers are striving to throw in some variety?

[inkhana]

I've heard there's supposed to be a sequel to MP! I don't know any details yet... But it'll be cool!