Disgaea, Phantom Brave and some problems.

[TroutNinja]

I've played both Phantom Brave and Disgaea now, and have come to the conclusion that they are great games as far as the playability and fun factor. However it is becoming more evident as more NIS games are released that the company likes the occult. For example, Disgaea was about the 'lord of the underworld' and his army of demons who attempt to conquor the underworld. I haven't gotten very far, but it seems to portray angels in a bad way.

As for Phantom Brave... I really enjoyed the gameplay and how all the mechanics worked out but.. is it really ok for us as christian game players to be 'confining' phantoms (or spirits depending on your term) in objects? Isn't that kinda like channeling and stuff like that? I really enjoyed both games while I played them, but the premise of both of them has kinda bothered me.

Opinions? Comments? Further reviews?

Oh, as for La Puculle Tactics.. I'm not sure, I haven't played it. It seems kinda odd that you're an exorcist who recruites demons. x_x

[Raiden no Kishi]

Well, this is definitely a grey area for many believers, myself included.

I would not play Disgaea, because your character and his party are specifcally evil and demonic in nature.

Phantom Brave is similar. I would say that the concepts presented in PB are of an occultically inspired nature, and so I would be against its play, personally. Others may be "looser" and consider it so cinematic and different that it isn't really close enough to "real life" channeling or whatever, and so would readily buy it. This is my belief about "magic" in most games, Final Fantasy for example. It's a whole different universe, and the "magic" is harmless IMO.

As for La Pucelle Tactics...I haven't played it either (nor have I played Disgaea or Phantom Brave), but the "recruiting" concept doesn't really bug me. After all, demons were once angels, forces of good, that defected. In a fantasy world, why wouldn't the reverse be possible? Besides, the cute, anime-style world of the game shows that nothing is taken TOO seriously.

But if you have reservations about buying/playing a game, by all means, don't. Pray first.

Rai

[MasterDias]

In the first place, the universe presented in Disgaea is not meant to be taken seriously. Angels and demons live on planets called Celestia and The Netherworld respectively. God and Satan are never mentioned in the entire game from what I've seen and apparantly have nothing to do with the storyline/world of Disgaea (aside from Angel Trainee Flonne saying "Lord, give me strength" on healing techniques but that doesn't count). Seraph Lamington rules Celestia and The Overlord rules/ruled The Netherworld.
Humans also exist in Disgaea on a sci-fi version of earth...

The story is mostly comic and lighthearted although it does have its touching/serious moments. The "magic" that your mages cast is the same type of thing as in Final Fantasy. I haven't actually completed the story missions yet although I am at the last stage of the last episode. The game's fun but gets a tad tedious at times with the amount of leveling and custimization. But, yeah, the game's basically fantasy in nature.

In Phantom Brave, the "confining" ability is used to give an added depth to the gameplay. I wouldn't think any more of it past that. Last time I checked, it wasn't possible in reality to summon anything into a rock or a tree or a watering can.

La Pucelle: Tactics, I haven't yet played.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

[emoanimechild]

wow, yeah I didn't know all that and here I was going to run out and buy phantom brave.... My friend gives me great reviews on games he said Disgaea was a great game but phantom brave was better in his opion, so I was going to buy it. Glad I read this though, now I'll have to reconsider.

[Nate]

Okay, you're talking to a guy whose parents let him watch "Blade Runner" when he was ten. Some people say I'm desensitized, and that may be so. I like to think that my faith is strong enough that most stuff like Disgaea won't affect me.

Don't put words in my mouth! I'm NOT saying anyone who doesn't like it isn't strong in their faith! Different strokes for different folks and some people just don't care for it like I don't care for "The Sound of Music." Sorry if my sentence makes it sound like that...but I enjoy Final Fantasy, Disgaea, and lots of other games.

Anyway, this is a gaming forum, not a theology forum! I've never played Phantom Brave of La Pucelle: Tactics, but I thoroughly enjoyed Disgaea (though the levelling up items thing was beyond irritating). Nice to see the voice actors from Brave Fencer Musashi in it too. "Musashi! Like, hurry up and save me!"

[Spiritsword]

Ah, so there *is* a thread. But not exactly what I expected. Not sure whether I should start a new thread about these great games or not, because I'd rather discuss gameplay, characters, etc. than appropriateness.

That being said, I'll just give my usual thoughts on the matter, and echo Raiden's "pray first". Just go where the Spirit leads you personally. I don't feel there is anything in these games that is presented in such a manner that it would warrant a "stay away no matter what". The games are cute and presented in a fantasy-esque manner. But again, pray and go where you are led personally.

I have now played La Pucelle, Disgaea, and Phantom Brave, and enjoyed all three. I'm still finding secrets in the games, though I've played through to the "standard" endings in all three. Disgaea and Phantom Brave allow for a huge degree of customization and replayability, which are *big* pluses for me. Plus, all three games are very cute, which is always a positive for me. ^_^

Well, anyone want to discuss the games? Which is your favorite? Who is your favorite character/class from each? Hardest boss?

[Fsiphskilm]

Final Fantasy X is

[Chichiri]

-Disgaea is very lighthearted. It's one of my favorite games, I recommend it a lot. Do they portray angels as bad? yes and no. It's mainly one angel who is portrayed as bad, and it's more or less "I want to get rid of the Netherworld scum". There is no religious reason why you shouldn't buy this game.

It's different than the mold. It's different than bad guy <x> wants to destroy the world so now hero <a> and his party has to save the world like most rpg's.

I didn't like La pucelle, but there isn't much objectionable in it that I remember, except for being extremely cliche. You are defending the church and you work for the "light" side fighting the evil/darkness. Yes, you can recruit demons, but you have to pray a bunch of times to get them to like you before they'll join you.

As far as Phantom Brave... La Pucelle made me not want to get PB. Maybe in the future I will, but not now.

[termyt]

Oh, as for La Puculle Tactics.. I'm not sure, I haven't played it. It seems kinda odd that you're an exorcist who recruites demons. x_x

I'm playing La Pucelle now, and the demons, for the most part, are just the animals that inhabit the world. I wouldn't rank them with the demons we think of - lost souls who turned on God and are now damned. They appear to be more like self-aware animals that can choose to follow you or follow the "dark" side. That doesn't bother me near as much as the absolutely atrocious story line full of bad religion and a Lucas-like universal view. I cringe every time a story portion of the game comes up. The land's goddess has a mean streak, their holy book is proven wrong, and their messiah figure needs rescuing (instead of the other way around). They deal with religion, but turn the truth on it's ear.

But the fighting is very pleasurable. It plays like a cross between an RPG and a tactics game - hence the title. I've enjoyed recruiting demons and configuring and leveling up items and characters. That aspect of the game is very well done.

[kaji]

I can only speak for Disgaea, since it is the only one I have played. But I would like to clarify a couple things.

It seams that the controversy has risen from our use of the words (classifications) demons and angles, both of which are not displayed in a Biblical context in this game. Rather, they are used to describe two worlds that live in complete opposite of one another. Every Angle is supposed to enjoy flowers, candy, and always be happy. Where Demons are supposed to be deceitful, callous, and heartless. However, the point of the story is not to emphasize these ideas, rather it’s to destroy them. The main character, who is a ‘demon’ believes that he must act in a certain fashion because of his title, but over the course of the story realizes that his methods may not be entirely correct and begins to have a change of heart. Similarly, the leading ‘angel’ character learns that the world is not all fluffy pillows and pretty flowers.

I have not finished the game, so I suppose that I cannot comment for everything, but I would like to say that thus far the story have been generally light hearted, and if you were not going to get this game for a reason, it would be more appropriately due to the HORRIBLE voice acting.

Note: I guess I should mention that this game does have some other non-religious content that may deter you. Some of the conversations are a little questionable. There is a part where photographs surface of the main character doing something ‘embarrassing.’ Also, some of the monsters do wear some revealing cloths (one of which is pictured on the game case). Fortunately the 2-d graphics take care of most of the detail, but it may be beyond the point. Hmm, just other random stuff, like a horse wiener…

Going back to Spritswords comment, I would love to talk about Disgaea!
I am only one chapter 7 or 8. I just caught that kids Zombies for him.
I tend to not use the bosses that join your party as you go. I like to make my own army, and besides, those other guys cant throw stuff! I did capture one of the Neko girls. She was just cool.

I’m not sure how many classes there are, but I have already unlocked the TheifsX4, ScountsX4, NinjasX4, RoninsX4,KnightsX3, Star Mage, WarriorsX4 (male and female), and FightersX4 (male and female). I learned that you can unlock the Archer by leveling up someones Bow skill, but I really don’t use them much. Guns are SOOO much cooler.

I would have to say the Ninja is my favorite class, those guys are untouchable! ^_^

-kaji

[Chichiri]

heh, yeah Ninjas are awesome. But for someone who's played the game a lot (I got most of my characters to level 3000), The ninja is good up to a point. Afterawhile, they kinda suck. If you play only up to the final boss and nothing more, ninjas kick butt. They dodge a lot of attacks and have good damage. But once you start hitting the 1500+ levels, their attack starts to weaken compared to everyone elses. However, there dodging skills still remain superb.

Samurai's (espicially the upper class samurai's) are my favorite human class. Very strong, good def.

Fav monster class is Great Wyrm's. They are definitely the best

As for the audio.. Kaji.. why don't you just turn it to the Japanese audio? The japanese audio is awesome... the english audio is horrible.

As for as the photos...
[spoiler] I think they are just photos of him n3kkid[/spoiler]

[Spiritsword]

I've beaten Disgaea, just with the "normal" ending. I'm leveling up my characters but I'm nowhere near you in terms of level, Chichiri. I just unlocked the angel class, which was very cool, because the angels are my favorite class. I now have many of them on my team. I'm looking forward to leveling way up and trying to find some of the hidden characters. I got most of the hidden characters on Phantom Brave, including one very cool one that I can't mention due to spoiler potential.

I enjoyed all three games: LaPucelle, Disgaea, and Phantom Brave, for different reasons. I feel like the gameplay is smoother in PB, but deeper and more tactics-oriented in Disgaea. Both are extremely customizable and replayable. Like termyt, I liked the style of fighting in La Pucelle.

Is there a game called "Rhapsody" by the same company, which came out before the three we're discussing? Has anyone played it, and if you have, is it worth getting?

[MasterDias]

I got up to the final battle in Disgaea, but have not yet finished it. I did enjoy the game although there were some aspects that I felt were rather tedious. Leveling up items in the item world for example. Monster's were never really as useful to me as humanoid characters were although some monster attacks are very powerful and I've used to an extent the ones who join your party automatically.
As for the human characters, I like the ninja and the samurai classes as they are both pretty potent fighters.

I've actually enjoyed Phantom Brave more, although given the two, most people seem to prefer Disgaea to Phantom Brave which is at least partly due to the amount of optional worlds in the former. I have gotton a kick out of the fact that every object in PB has its own move set. There's nothing quite like blowing away an enemy using a vase or a tree. I found it interesting that not all of your moves are based on the Attack or Intelligence stat like most Rpg's. Some are based on such stats as Resistance and Speed.
Monster's seem to be more useful in Phantom Brave as they can equip weapons and can now pick up and throw.
I'm currently up to Episode 9.

I haven't played La Pucelle: Tactics but I'd really prefer to wait until I finish with Phantom Brave and Disgaea before I consider getting La Pucelle. There is only so much of complex, exhaustive strategy RPGs that I can take at one time, or I will seriously get burned out on them altogether.

Is there a game called "Rhapsody" by the same company, which came out before the three we're discussing? Has anyone played it, and if you have, is it worth getting?

Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure or whatever Atlus called it is, I believe, the first game in the Marl's Kingdom series. I haven't played it so I can't attest to its quality, but I have heard that it is very easy and very short.

[kaji]

Hey, good idea Chichiri, I think I will change it to the Japanese audio. Thanks!
Wow , level 3000. Cool stuff, I guess you must have unlocked the Majin’s then?
From what I understand, Majins are the class to replace all other classes (starting with 110% aptitude in all areas). Only the EDF soldier can compare slightly, and that is only with a gun.

Yeah MasterDias, I know what you mean about different weapons using different stats to calculate their damage. That is cool, and I noticed it with guns and bows in Disgaea (using your hit value rather then attack for damage), but in PB there is even more?

Does anyone know of good places to level up? I have been using that one level in the Jehotium (I know I totally misspelled that) where the entire board is invincible. I just pass the exp X3 for the character I want to level up, and then toss all the monsters together to make on level 112 (or so) monster, throw her on the unaffected panel and hack and slash until she goes down. It worked good for a little while, but now the monsters are about my level again. (I hate leveling up in games…)

[Chichiri]

Heh Kaji, glad I could have helped. I only use one Majin, which is the top level class and pretty much 120% aptitude in everything. He's good, but I don't use him too often actually. It wouldn't be fun, imo, to just use a ton of majin's for everything. I always only use 1 of each class. That's more than enough to kick butt!

As far as EDF soldiers... never unlocked em... you need someone with a level 30 in gun. that's insane. the only one who used a gun was my thief, and since their aptitude for weapons is low, it was kinda tough. Though if you work their HIT stat enough, they can be a force to be reckoned with.

As far as places to level... just random stages is good enough. What you're doing is probably good enough for now. There are leveling guides out there that list stages, but I don't think any of them are that good... they're just a pain in the butt. Once you get towards the end, you do, however, find some really really good ones.

Also, it's a MUST to get a level 300 statistician on one of your weapons/armor. then whoever you are leveling up should be wearing that piece of armor/weaponary for faster leveling.

[kaji]

Also, it's a MUST to get a level 300 statistician on one of your weapons/armor. then whoever you are leveling up should be wearing that piece of armor/weaponary for faster leveling

Oooh, Good idea. I havent messed around much with leveling up items and Specialists and stuff though. Probably because I havent really taken the time to understand how it works, and I didnt want to waste my time leveling an item I was just going to replace in the next chapter...

Really? Level 30 Gun skill? That sure is a lot. I use a Scout though, and I think (cant quite remember right now) that his aptitude for guns is 'A'. He also sports a nice 110% aptitude for 'Hit'. I think that makes him your best gunner untill you can unlock the EDF.^_^
I like guns because they have a much better range then bows and their users are not as frail as mages.

Later,

-kaji

[MasterDias]

Oooh, Good idea. I havent messed around much with leveling up items and Specialists and stuff though. Probably because I havent really taken the time to understand how it works, and I didnt want to waste my time leveling an item I was just going to replace in the next chapter...

It will really help to go into the Item World and recruit some specialists for your equipment. They boost the stats of whatever you equip them in. After that, you probably won't need to constantly buy expensive weapons and armor for all of your characters every other chapter.
If you have any rare or legendary items, they tend to be pretty good to use as they have a lot of space for specialists.

I like guns because they have a much better range then bows and their users are not as frail as mages.

Swords and axes are better than spears. Guns are better than bows. That's what most people think anyway and I can agree with them pretty easily.

For training stages, there are several pretty good ones around the chapters where you are at. I don't remember the names of them however. It's been awhile. I never bothered making any EDF soldiers. Although, they were pretty tough fighters when I fought them.

Yeah MasterDias, I know what you mean about different weapons using different stats to calculate their damage. That is cool, and I noticed it with guns and bows in Disgaea (using your hit value rather then attack for damage), but in PB there is even more?

Yeah, pretty much.
Depending on the weapon in PB, the damage will be based on either HP, Attack, Defense, Intelligence, Resistance, or Speed.
Add to that the fact that anything in PB can be used as a weapon, even the bodies of your enemies or allies. Although, there are no armor or accessories in the game, just weapons.

[Chichiri]

Oooh, Good idea. I havent messed around much with leveling up items and Specialists and stuff though. Probably because I havent really taken the time to understand how it works, and I didnt want to waste my time leveling an item I was just going to replace in the next chapter...

Really? Level 30 Gun skill? That sure is a lot. I use a Scout though, and I think (cant quite remember right now) that his aptitude for guns is 'A'. He also sports a nice 110% aptitude for 'Hit'. I think that makes him your best gunner untill you can unlock the EDF.^_^
I like guns because they have a much better range then bows and their users are not as frail as mages.

Later,

-kaji

I dont remember scouts. are they the thief's too? If so, they dont have an A aptitude in guns. Sorry, i can't remember.

Spears suck... and yeah guns are awesome. if you get some of the better guns later in the game, their range increases to 5. then the best gun has a range of 6. very nice.

I definitely would level up some people in the weapons. Speciallists are the most important imo. You can do the other ones, but they seem unnecessary.

[MasterDias]

I dont remember scouts. are they the thief's too? If so, they dont have an A aptitude in guns. Sorry, i can't remember.

Scouts are the people who can rearrange the geopanels...and can summon a gun turret thing. I never used them that much. They always seemed pretty weak on the offensive/defensive side of things.

[kaji]

Scouts are crazy strong with guns, though they dont counter well like close combat units. But what makes scouts the most usefull (IMO) is their dark cannon. Sure sure, the turn after you use it it turns against you, but just think about all those annoying stages where the geopanles are stacked in your oponents favor... And those lousy little GeoStones are all the way on the other side of the map. Im sure you remember those levels. Now enter the scout: The dark cannon has no range limit, so you can shoot clear across the map (as long as there is not anything upstructing your view), set the cannon up and waste those annoying Geostones in the first round. When you are done, just kill your own cannon. Its as easy as that.


-kaji

[ice122985]

Different strokes for different folks

i think someone listens to Nicole C. Mullen...

but back on subject. I for one aint for magic and fantasy stuff mainly cuz i just plain like sci-fi instead. but for me it all depends on how they treat the magic. Oracle of Time and the FF series do a nice job; it's not to morbid, nor it wussy in any way- it's balanced.

but do like everyone else says and pray.

[Spiritsword]

Yeah, Phantom Brave really is a good game and there are lots of aspects of it I prefer over Disgaea. But there are parts of Disgaea I prefer as well. If you have the time and money, I'd recommend both games.

Good leveling-up stages on Disgaea? Hmm...I'm better at leveling up in PB. In Disgaea I use the item world a bit, but there are a couple stages that I've found effective. I can't remember the name of the first, but it's a lower-level stage good for some initial leveling-up, where the enemies are all arranged in neat little squares on +Exp panels. I've also used the Cave of Ordeal Level 3, that helped me level some mages up quickly.

I actually use mages a lot, and they are my most powerful characters right now because of their range, their ability to capitalize on the elemental weaknesses of enemies, and when you get their omega level spells to the point where they can take out a 9-enemy block you can level up pretty fast on certain stages.

And yeah, I just recently discovered the benefits of putting a statistician in your weapon. It does help with the leveling up. Overall, I found leveling up to be quicker and easier in PB than in Disgaea.

The part of Disgaea I'm confused on is the Dark Assembly. I seem to get in there to pass a major bill and pretty much every senator is against it. I don't have enough items to bribe them all. So to get to the one board I had to persuade by force. I ended up having to wipe out the whole assembly except two, I think. Anyone have any tips or pointers on getting bills passed in the assembly, or even how it works? Do I need to build up support on easier bills first, or just keep bribing, or something else? Laharl is the one I address the assembly with, and his current rank is 10, I think.

[MasterDias]

The part of Disgaea I'm confused on is the Dark Assembly. I seem to get in there to pass a major bill and pretty much every senator is against it. I don't have enough items to bribe them all. So to get to the one board I had to persuade by force. I ended up having to wipe out the whole assembly except two, I think. Anyone have any tips or pointers on getting bills passed in the assembly, or even how it works? Do I need to build up support on easier bills first, or just keep bribing, or something else? Laharl is the one I address the assembly with, and his current rank is 10, I think.

To get the optional stages(or at least most of them) and the more expensive bills, most people will probably have to persuade by force given the sheer amount of bribing that would be involved. Getting several of the highest level senators on your side still helps out a lot, as you can then throw the enemy senators into your higher-level ally senators.

[Chichiri]

To get the optional stages(or at least most of them) and the more expensive bills, most people will probably have to persuade by force given the sheer amount of bribing that would be involved. Getting several of the highest level senators on your side still helps out a lot, as you can then throw the enemy senators into your higher-level ally senators.

if you want to get things passed, clear your inventory and buy an inventory full of those one item that clears ailments (they are like 5 hell dollars)

then try to pass something that you will never pass and everyone will hate you. Then just go up to the senators and give them stuff they like or love. Do it to different senators until you use all your items then LEAVE, DO NOT TRY TO PASS THE BILL!! Then go back and buy another inventory full of those items, and do the same thing.

Rinse, lather, repeat. now try passing the bill you were originally trying to pass. Chances are you'll have a much better chance after doing the above 10-15 times.

[kaji]

Getting several of the highest level senators on your side still helps out a lot, as you can then throw the enemy senators into your higher-level ally senators

Does that really work? They dont get angry at you and change their favor if you throw other senators into them?

As far as the Dark Congress goes, isnt there a point in the game where Laharls Class changes from Demon Prince to like Demon Lord or somthing (this might be a streach)? Anyway, I think I read somwhere that this 'class' give Laharl greater influance over the senators. Like I said, this may just be a strech of my imagination...

[MasterDias]

Does that really work? They dont get angry at you and change their favor if you throw other senators into them?

As long as you don't attack them directly with an attack, they will stay on your side. Throwing senators together is not considered attacking as it causes no damage.

[Spiritsword]

Thanks for the advice, all. That helps a lot. I didn't realize you could bribe then leave and pick up where you left off. That should help. Thanks!

[Chichiri]

Does that really work? They dont get angry at you and change their favor if you throw other senators into them?

As far as the Dark Congress goes, isnt there a point in the game where Laharls Class changes from Demon Prince to like Demon Lord or somthing (this might be a streach)? Anyway, I think I read somwhere that this 'class' give Laharl greater influance over the senators. Like I said, this may just be a strech of my imagination...

-First part:

Yes, it works (like he said). However, i've tried this method and it's not as easy as it sounds. If their are a good many enemy senators higher level than you, you're screwed. They'll kill you before you get the chance to throw them into the senators. Plus, the senators that like you don't move, so you have to get close enough so you can send them into the senator.

Second part:
about the class change... spoilerific, but it does not spoil the main plot:

[spoiler]

Yes, he changes to Tyrant (or demon lord, i cant remember) once you beat Lord of Terror (i think that's his name, sorry). if he does have better influence over the senators, which would make sense, it doesn't matter. by then you can overpower even the strongest of senators with ease.

[/spoiler]

[MasterDias]

Yes, it works (like he said). However, i've tried this method and it's not as easy as it sounds. If their are a good many enemy senators higher level than you, you're screwed. They'll kill you before you get the chance to throw them into the senators. Plus, the senators don't move, so you have to get close enough so you can send them into the senator.

That's true.
I had to reset a few times before I got a few high-level senators on the front row that I could bribe, under the right conditions. And if most of the enemies are a lot of levels higher than you, it will be difficult.
Still, it could prove useful in some cases...