From the New World

[MangaRocks!]

Episode 24:

Yet another tense and excellent episode. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: And it's looking like the thing about the kid not being an Ogre but rather thinking that he's a Rat instead of a human was right...

Looking forward to the finale.

[blkmage]

This was a good cartoon.

[MangaRocks!]

^ Agreed!


Thoughts on the finale:

SPOILER: Highlight text to read: ...Wait, she was a girl? I had thought the kid was just a really girly-looking boy. Anyway, though, yes-- that theory was indeed true, and it (sadly) worked, poor thing.

Also, holy crap-- I always figured there had to be some connection between the Rats and the humans, and what a terrible one it was. (I got goosebumps during that entire revelation. ) On top of every other awful thing that society had done, that was just the final blow, wasn't it?

As for the end: Well, I'm glad Saki and Satoru got married , and I'm even *more* glad that there was actually a hopeful ending for a societal change after all of that! In fact, out of all the series finales I've watched this week, I think that was the most satisfying one for me so far. Well done.

[Mouse2010]

Good ending, even if I found it bittersweet. SPOILER: Highlight text to read: I know this was unrealistic, but I really hoped that Saki would be able to save Maria's child. I also didn't like seeing Kiroumaru die. Still, he died "well," and I thought it was awesome that his last request was that Saki protect his mother. That was such a clear contrast to Squeala's mistreatment of his own queen, and I think it highlighted the ways in which the two leaders were different, despite both of them protesting the mistreatment of the "rats" by the humans with power. Also . . . I cannot BELIEVE how cute those little Impure Cats were! Who would guess that they could grow up to be so vicious? But more seriously, I did like that the series ended on an optimistic note -- but what was up with the very last scenes of her remembering her dead classmates? Anyone have theories about that? It felt like a weird note to end on. Anyway, I'm really glad I decided to give this series a try.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

Kiroumaru, I take my hat off to you. You were noble in a place that really needed your kind of nobility..

I wouldn't judge Squealer too harshly for the way he treated his queen. Regardless of whether or not it was ultimately justifiable, remember that the first time we met the queen she literally attempted to eat him. In fact, I can feel nothing but pity for Squealer. I kind of wish he and Kiroumaru could have come together and worked towards a greater ending for their people. The contrast between them was one of the most interesting parts about the Monster Rats, I think.

The ending was fantastic, though. Did everything pretty much right, which excellently contrasts itself with Psycho-Pass. It's nice to see that between this and tsuritama, A-1 can really produce some fantastic work if they have the right staff.

[blkmage]

Yeah, I can't really say that Squealer is a bad person just because of that, especially when that's the historical arc of a lot of modern democratic nation-states. I mean, everyone loves Kiroumaru's character because he's noble and all but when you get down to it, it basically maintained and enabled the oppressive structure of their society. And to what end, so they can continue to be oppressed by humans and/or their queen? And if you really want to dive into it, there are so many other uncomfortable parallels to our society, both modern and historical that I'm hesitant to assign any kind of moral superiority to any of the players here.

But of course, that's also the mark of a good piece of work.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

SHAMELESS ADVERTISING hey guys I wrote a post on my blog about Kiroumaru and Squealer, check it out

[GeneD]

SPOILER: Highlight text to read: So I unfortunately missed all the interesting discussion, but I had some random thoughts and nowhere to put them. One thing that was interesting to me is that everything that happened, which was mostly pretty awful, happened because Saki and her group specifically weren't put under the same level of mind control as everyone else, which again strengthens the case justifying what lengths the adults go to to preserve peace. Obviously there's a good chance that the rebellion would have happened somehow anyway especially since the Rats were already looking for ways to defeat the humans. Although the ending was hopeful, we didn't really get an idea of what exactly they're going to do differently to stop the appearance of Ogres and Karma Demon's. In some ways this anime reminds me a little of The Giver (although I didn't actually like that book).

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I wouldn't say that the fact that Saki and co. are responsible for the events of the show help justify the decisions of the humans. Regardless of whether or not the events of the show would have happened if they had been brainwashed like everyone else, the current system is broken considering the atrocities the Monster Rats have to endure under the oppressive reign of the humans. It is only through allowing free thinkers (remember Tomiko's line about how a sheep cannot lead sheep?) that there is some chance at reform between Monster Rats and the humans, which in turn it is through the efforts of both Squealer and Kiroumaru that Saki and to a lesser extent Satoru change their viewpoint on the Monster Rats.

[GeneD]

I was talking more about the use of mind control etc. to prevent humans turning into Ogres and Karma Demons, although of course that kid wasn't a true Ogre.

I agree that the situation with the monster rats couldn't continue and that free thinkers are needed to change it, but I don't know how related that is to the mind control stuff. I saw that as a preventative measure against Ogres and Karma Demons, and not having much to do with the way monster rats were treated. People don't need to be mind controlled to oppress other people, especially if it's something that they, their parents etc. grew up with.

So best case scenario, relations with the monster rats improve and they come to be regarded and have lives equal to humans, but what's to stop 1 kid in 5 (taking some liberties with statistics here) becoming a Karma Demon and basically having to ostracize themselves and maybe even comic suicide to stop themselves from harming the people and literally the world around them? And yes Ogre's seem to be a rare occurrence, but the damage one can do doesn't really make it logical for them to just hope one never appears again.

I don't know, we seem to be more concerned about different aspects of the show. You about monster rats and me about the humans' powers going out of control. I feel the latter wasn't nearly as nicely wrapped up as the former.

[Mouse2010]

I don't know, we seem to be more concerned about different aspects of the show. You about monster rats and me about the humans' powers going out of control. I feel the latter wasn't nearly as nicely wrapped up as the former.

I've actually been meaning to come back to this thread for a couple of weeks, because this comment stuck out to me. When I began watching the show, I was most concerned about the treatment of psychic children. I was appalled by the way the Education Committee eliminated children on just a thread of suspicion that they MIGHT be dangerous. In fact, didn't it imply that any children without Power were also eliminated? That was really problematic to me, and I expected the murder of the "defective" children to be the main conflict of the show. I didn't realize how important the monster rats were until at least halfway through the series.

So, in retrospect, I realize that the series didn't address my original concern very well. There's little indication of what, if anything, might change about the treatment of the children. But for some reason, that didn't bother me . . . I guess because after the monster rat rebellion, I was so interested in the fate of the monster rats that I forgot about some of my original concerns. It was only much later, after reading this thread, that I realized all the things that WEREN'T resolved.

That said, it would have been incredibly unrealistic if they had just miraculously fixed everything in time for the finale. I liked the optimistic-but-ambiguous ending better.

[GeneD]

I've actually been meaning to come back to this thread for a couple of weeks, because this comment stuck out to me. When I began watching the show, I was most concerned about the treatment of psychic children. I was appalled by the way the Education Committee eliminated children on just a thread of suspicion that they MIGHT be dangerous. In fact, didn't it imply that any children without Power were also eliminated? That was really problematic to me, and I expected the murder of the "defective" children to be the main conflict of the show. I didn't realize how important the monster rats were until at least halfway through the series.

So, in retrospect, I realize that the series didn't address my original concern very well. There's little indication of what, if anything, might change about the treatment of the children. But for some reason, that didn't bother me . . . I guess because after the monster rat rebellion, I was so interested in the fate of the monster rats that I forgot about some of my original concerns. It was only much later, after reading this thread, that I realized all the things that WEREN'T resolved.

That said, it would have been incredibly unrealistic if they had just miraculously fixed everything in time for the finale. I liked the optimistic-but-ambiguous ending better.

I agree that it would've been a bad idea to shoehorn in a fix and I'm not unhappy with the ending. If they wanted to resolve both issues equally I think the series would have needed a major restructuring. I think it's just that I would have been perfectly happy watching a series solely about the measures a society goes to to prevent their psychic children's powers going haywire and how they find a way to deal with it more humanely, which really was what I was expecting from the start. So my slight dissatisfaction with it is really purely personal.