Anime you think don't deserve the heaps of praise, and why they don't.

[Atria35]

Me neither. Unless 5cm/s was one of them....

Totally different director. Not even related to Miyazaki.

[Kaori]

I like Howl's Moving Castle and Kiki's Delivery Service, but as for Nausicaa and Ponyo...am I just missing "the" movie?

I agree with you about Ponyo. It’s not so much that I think it doesn’t deserve praise as I just don’t get why people do like it. I fail to see the appeal. (If anyone wants to explain why you liked this movie, I’d be interested in hearing it.)

Nausicaa, though . . . if you haven’t, do yourself a favor and read the manga. The story is far richer and more complex than what could fit into a single movie. I thought the movie wasn’t bad, but the manga is much better.

Also on the subject of Studio Ghibli films (but not Miyazaki): The Cat Returns. I’m not sure whether it’s highly regarded by English-speaking anime fans in general, but I can only recall ever hearing positive things about it. However, to me it was a mediocre movie that made me wonder, “Why am I watching this cheesy kids’ movie?â€

[Ally-Ann]

Ally, you have to realize you can't impose your Christian views on everyone. Japan is not a Christian country. That's why its anime has so little "Christian" stuff in it. I guess you don't like Narnia because it has magic in it. GUESS WHAT? Lewis used magic as a medium, creating a world where God and magic could exist and using it to teach Biblical values.

Ehm. I like Narnia. And magic. Just not dark magic being used for good. That's all.

[TWWK]

That would be by Makoto Shinkai.

What about Shinkai? Any haters of his work? I loved Voices of a Distant Star, really enjoyed 5 cm per Second, and thought The Place Promised in Our Early Days was beautiful, but a bit boring. In other words, I think he (generally) deserves all the acclaim he's received (though I don't think he's lived up to lofty expectation yet). Anyone disagree?

[Shao Feng-Li]

What about Shinkai? Any haters of his work? I loved Voices of a Distant Star, really enjoyed 5 cm per Second, and thought The Place Promised in Our Early Days was beautiful, but a bit boring. In other words, I think he (generally) deserves all the acclaim he's received (though I don't think he's lived up to lofty expectation yet). Anyone disagree?

I've only seen Voices and the Placed Promised. I thought they're pretty darn good. If the stories were bad, I didn't notice because of the artwork.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I am a Shinkai fan, but I will say this: his new film needs to be about more than distance and clouds to validate him as a storyteller. I haven't seen Voices, but I hear its thematically similar to his other work. So yeah, I think he needs to tell a different story now. Otherwise, I will probably end up recommending him to others in the following way, "Watch 5 C/S, but don't worry about his other stuff. It's kind of all the same, and 5 C/S is the most successful iteration of the story he wants to tell." Not saying his themes/story are qualitatively bad. They're just...the same in each of his works (assuming what I've heard about Voices holds true).

[TWWK]

I am a Shinkai fan, but I will say this: his new film needs to be about more than distance and clouds to validate him as a storyteller. I haven't seen Voices, but I hear its thematically similar to his other work.

You've heard right. Voices is probably the most heavy-handed of the three, in fact, in featuring the whole theme of distance.

[blkmage]

Well, he's only made three things, one of which (Voices) I found to be incredibly rough that I don't know would be fair to include. The Place Promised and 5 cm/s are both definitely a lot more refined and while the two share the same overarching theme, I hesitate to say that they reduce to the same movie. I'd wait for Hoshi o Ou Kodomo, which is about distance (and clouds lololol) but looks to be pretty different from anything he's done before, before deciding where he fits in my hierarchy of directors.

I mean, what's wrong with focusing on a particular theme if he does it well? What's the difference between him and, say, Adachi Mitsuru?

[Agloval]

Shinkai leaves me cold, but I think that's just because I'm interested in different things. I think most of the praise leveled at his work is probably deserved.

Generally speaking I get a bit peeved when I hear things being praised for inventiveness. Partly because I'm aware that there are usually less well-known precedents -- I'm no expert on old anime and manga but, taking examples from one particular strand I do know a little about, pilots got depressed before 1995 and shouted a lot before 2007 -- and also partly because I think we overvalue originality. I'd rather hear something praised for being well-executed than for having fresh ideas.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I mean, what's wrong with focusing on a particular theme if he does it well? What's the difference between him and, say, Adachi Mitsuru?

Nothing wrong with it at all. Shinaki does what he does well.

I think there is a difference between Shinkai and Adachi. They tell both similar stories in each of their works, but Adachi covers several themes in each work (if each is similar Cross Game a la your analogy), whereas Shinkai has his one kind of emotion he wants to touch. Having a large set of themes to spread over a longer story, in the subtle way that Adachi implements them, makes the fact that his tales are similar more palatable. For me.

It may be more a matter of taste than anything, though.

[TWWK]

Well, he's only made three things, one of which (Voices) I found to be incredibly rough that I don't know would be fair to include.

Well, he did make it on his Power Mac.

It's still my favorite, and the only one I've watched multiple times.

[ShiroiHikari]

Generally speaking I get a bit peeved when I hear things being praised for inventiveness. Partly because I'm aware that there are usually less well-known precedents -- I'm no expert on old anime and manga but, taking examples from one particular strand I do know a little about, pilots got depressed before 1995 and shouted a lot before 2007 -- and also partly because I think we overvalue originality. I'd rather hear something praised for being well-executed than for having fresh ideas.

I am with you on this one! Execution matters so much more than originality. And it especially annoys me when people praise stuff for being original when it's really not.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I haven't seen Voices or Places but I was under the impression Shinkai's work all deal with distance and relationships, but in a different way. I heard Voices is about trying to keep one, Places is trying to reestablish one, and 5 cm/s is [spoiler]about learning to let go of one[/spoiler]

[FllMtl Novelist]

The only studio Ghibli movie I've seen is Whisper of the Heart, and I liked it, but I don't think it's exactly amazing. My only real problem with it was that the ending felt like it went a little too far to me.
[spoiler]"Hey, you think maybe, years off in the future, we can get married? Also, I love you!"[/spoiler] I like that the girl was a writer, naturally, and I definitely enjoyed the movie, but I just don't think it's the greatest thing. XD

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

Whisper of the Heart isn't actually a Miyazaki film.

[samurai10]

*reads Ally's dislike of FMA and flares up to 300 degrees*

*reads Bleach and Naruto hate and goes back to normal*

I agree with Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh, Bleach, and Naruto hate.

With Cowboy Bebop, I seriously had to like, force myself to watch it. And the only reason I watched it was because my friend liked it a lot, and I don't like putting him down.... I'm easily amused or entertained though. Once I finally realized what the heck was happening in the first episode, I thought it was ok. Not my favorite anime by far, but...Ok. I felt that it was like Black Cat though. Bounty hunters, starving, hunger, money, food, big sums of money for a major criminal stuff like that. Then again, that could just be the pattern of very good bounty hunters XD and after they got past the bounty hunter part.

Azumanga Daioh I only watched because I had made a deal with a friend. If she watched one episode of FMA, I would watch an episode of Azumanga Daioh. Seriously though, I barely laughed. :/ Idk why though, I'm really easy to make laugh. But it just...wasn't funny. :/ to me at least.

Bleach. It's ok. My sister hates it though, and has pointed out a few good reasons why she shouldn't watch it, though for the life of me, I can't remember now. >_> But I'm easily amused and entertained, so I just wasted my time on watching 250+ episodes of it XD It's a challenge to remember all the names of all the captains and lieutenants though XD

Naruto....Man, I don't know why I watch this anymore. I just...do XD Seriously. Flashback....after flashback....after stinking flashback....after flashback.... They've had like, 10 episodes straight with just flashbacks, right? And like, 30-40 episodes with no plot at all at the end of the first series. SO annoying. XD

I don't understand Black Cat hate though, since I've only read the manga. (Random fact: Black Cat was the first manga I read from start to finish XD) I liked Black Cat. A lot.

Miyazaki's films...Hm. I've seen Howl's Moving Castle, which, I admit is a bit confusing, but I still really liked it a lot. I saw Spirited Away, Ponyo (which, btw, is thee cutest anime movie I've ever seen <3) and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. And Princess Mononoke (although I'm not sure if this was made by Miyazaki) I don't really understand the hate for these movies though....*scratches head*

[FllMtl Novelist]

Whisper of the Heart isn't actually a Miyazaki film.

Dang it, that's twice I've messed that up. I'll fix that.

[Nate]

Naruto....Man, I don't know why I watch this anymore. I just...do XD Seriously. Flashback....after flashback....after stinking flashback....after flashback.... They've had like, 10 episodes straight with just flashbacks, right? And like, 30-40 episodes with no plot at all at the end of the first series. SO annoying. XD

Not to mention the massive plot holes. Hey the Hyuga clan has this eye power that's like one of the oldest and greatest of the eye powers! And here's a bad guy who wants to collect eye powers! Wait, why isn't he going after the Byakugan? BEATS US!

[Radical Dreamer]

All of the Bebop hate in this thread just saddens me so greatly. XD Maybe I just prefer that things be slower-paced sometimes, but I love almost everything about that show. XD The pacing, the story, the characters, the music, the acting, the animation, the colors, the sense of humor, all of it. XD I just think it's beautifully put together. XD It might look less exciting next to a super colorful anime full of fast editing and super JPoppy songs, but there's something reflective and gritty but appropriately humorous about Cowboy Bebop that I really enjoy, and I wish there were more series like it. XD

[Nate]

Like I said, I found it boring. I don't think it was the pacing. I don't mind things that are slow-paced. I mean, I watched the extended cut of Seven Samurai by Akira Kurosawa and loved that movie...it's like three and a half hours long. You don't get much more slow-paced than that, and I think it's one of the greatest movies ever made.

*shrug* I dunno. I'm fully willing to admit the genre might not be to my tastes, or maybe it's one of those things where if you saw it when you were a kid and hadn't seen much anime, it's brilliant. I mean, that's what happened with Akira, is people hadn't seen a cartoon quite like it, and it became critically acclaimed despite not being that good, simply because it was new to them. Which I'm not saying Cowboy Bebop isn't good, I'm just saying that it could be just a good anime which is held in perhaps higher regard than it deserves simply because it's one of the first anime people saw.

[Atria35]

I thought Cowboy Bebop was just on the good side of 'meh'. I totally didn't get the first three episodes- I thought they were boring, that I didn't care for the characters, that the plot was nonexistant and rather depressing.

I was partially right on the last part, but the fun that they had with some of the episodes and side characters, and the ending made it good. However, I don't think it's one of the end-all be-all anime out there.

Considering I watched it after seeing a good 100 anime series, I think that I'm glad I watched it when I did and not at the beginning of my anime journey. It would have totally put me off anime for another year.

[samurai10]

Well, I don't really hate Cowboy Bebop. I found it interesting after I finally got past the first 3 episodes XD But it's not on my favorites list, definitely. XD I thought Vicious was...Vicious. O.O XD One of my friends absolutely adores it though. It's the only anime he's ever watched. XD

[Yamamaya]

I am with you on this one! Execution matters so much more than originality. And it especially annoys me when people praise stuff for being original when it's really not.

Originality is a myth. The only thing creators can do is take old models and tropes and use them in new ways.

[AnimeGirl]

Okay....now I got one....

Ouran High School Host Club. Now I've only watched 3 episodes. It seems pretty popular, and I'm not saying it wasn't funny. I did laugh, BUT I wouldn't call it spectacular or anything, or so hilarious "you HAVE to watch this!" kind of show. I'll probably finish it eventually (my mom did, and she loved it). Plus some of the content was....eh....bit much for me in some cases, but it was mostly for humor's sake, so I can usually push that aside. The show itself, though was interesting, is just OK to me. Nothing special or must see, in my humble opinion.

Basically, not a must-see for me. If I finish it I finish it, if not it's no big deal to me.

[MightiMidget]

Okay. I watched My Neighbor Totoro, and I found it cute, but nothing special. I wouldn't watch it again by personal choice, though I wouldn't be opposed to it if someone else wanted to watch it....but I was not impressed, just very...neutral toward it.

[rocklobster]

Okay. I watched My Neighbor Totoro, and I found it cute, but nothing special. I wouldn't watch it again by personal choice, though I wouldn't be opposed to it if someone else wanted to watch it....but I was not impressed, just very...neutral toward it.

The problem is, you need to be a little kid for it to work. That way, it can enchant you.

[TWWK]

All of the Bebop hate in this thread just saddens me so greatly. XD Maybe I just prefer that things be slower-paced sometimes, but I love almost everything about that show. XD The pacing, the story, the characters, the music, the acting, the animation, the colors, the sense of humor, all of it. XD I just think it's beautifully put together. XD It might look less exciting next to a super colorful anime full of fast editing and super JPoppy songs, but there's something reflective and gritty but appropriately humorous about Cowboy Bebop that I really enjoy, and I wish there were more series like it. XD

YES YES YES!!! Although I don't like the Miyazaki hate here, the Cowboy Bebop hate really saddens me, too. It's just...gosh, it's really a beautiful series, in so many ways. A post went up yesterday by a blogger I like, and it mentioned some of what was so good about the show:

How is it that I can feel so much, for and about nothingness? absence? loss? So much of our music, our stories, are devoted to sadness and loss. I listen to the blues when I am sad, and I am happy because someone strung the notes together that describe my sadness better than I ever could. I wail against my inability to articulate my own sorrow, and feel envy at how another human being could, and even worse envy —]The problem is, you need to be a little kid for it to work. That way, it can enchant you.[/QUOTE]

I was a grown adult when I first saw it, and it totally enchanted me.

[Sheenar]

[quote="TWWK (post: 1458337)"]YES YES YES!!! Although I don't like the Miyazaki hate here, the Cowboy Bebop hate really saddens me, too. It's just...gosh, it's really a beautiful series, in so many ways. A post went up yesterday by a blogger I like, and it mentioned some of what was so good about the show:

How is it that I can feel so much, for and about nothingness? absence? loss? So much of our music, our stories, are devoted to sadness and loss. I listen to the blues when I am sad, and I am happy because someone strung the notes together that describe my sadness better than I ever could. I wail against my inability to articulate my own sorrow, and feel envy at how another human being could, and even worse envy — how that person could actually be sadder than I am, to have made such sorrowful music.

The thing about Cowboy Bebop is how incredibly sad it all is. I don’t just mean the histrionics, and don’t let the mirth fool you]

And that is the main reason I love Cowboy Bebop so much!

And the Miyazaki hate saddens me too, though I can understand how/why his films may not be to someone's tastes. Ponyo, Castle in the Sky, Princess Mononoke and Porco Russo are my favorites out of his films.

But I agree about Naruto and Bleach.

[blkmage]

Can we please stop conflating criticism and issues of taste with hate?

[Nate]

If Cowboy Bebop is a beautiful series, I'd sure hate to see an ugly series. ;D