Anime you think don't deserve the heaps of praise, and why they don't.

[Atria35]

By giving my oppinion, I stated why I didn't think they deserved all the praise they get. The title of the thread is "Anime you think don't deserve the heaps of praise, and why they don't". I stated why.

So the content is why you don't think they deserve the praise they get. Am I interpresting that correctly?

I actually think that's a valid reason to not like a series.

[blkmage]

Whether or not someone likes a series is irrelevant to whether a series deserves the praise it gets. People can like bad things (i.e. me and Shakugan no Shana) and people can dislike good things. If a series has beautiful animation but has horrendous writing, that doesn't negate the fact that it deserves the praise it gets for its animation. I've criticized two shows so far, Air and Azumanga Daioh. The thing is, I like Azumanga Daioh. The fact that I like it does not mean that I think it is the epitome of its genre. The fact I dislike Air for its horrid plot structure does not mean that Air isn't an emotionally impactful story (once you can figure out what's going on lololol).

[Ally-Ann]

Let me put into words everyone will understand:

[SIZE="2"] I don't think they deserve all the praise they get because I believe that dark magic is evil, even if it's being used for "good" things[/SIZE]. Case closed. Sheesh.

[ShiroiHikari]

Okay, geez. No need to get mad. Nobody else here was getting mad.

Also blkmage makes a good point. People do like bad things. I like some things that are objectively kind of bad, but I also don't go around saying "THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER OF ALL TIME", because it's not the best thing ever. I just happen to like it a lot. I think it's kind of an important distinction to make.

[Nate]

[SIZE="2"] I don't think they deserve all the praise they get because I believe that dark magic is evil, even if it's being used for "good" things[/SIZE]. Case closed. Sheesh.

That still makes no sense. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel uncomfortable about those things. I'm saying that you saw one episode and stopped because you were uncomfortable. That's fine, but I'll go back to my green shirts example (and I'm not trying to say your feelings are as stupid as my green shirt example, please don't take it that way, I'm just making it simple).

If I hate green shirts, and I watch an anime that has a guy with a green shirt in it and go "I hate this!" and stop after the first episode, it's because I know that my personal feelings are that I dislike green shirts. Which is fine. I would also know that not everyone hates green shirts like I do. I would completely understand that some people don't care about green shirts, even though I do.

The problem is, the reason you don't understand why people praise FMA/Death Note/Bleach is you haven't watched them. You cut it off when you felt uncomfortable. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, or that you shouldn't do that. What I'm saying is you already know people don't feel the same as you, so why mention them in this thread? Again, this isn't "Anime you hated" or "Anime you didn't like the content of." This is anime you watched and just couldn't understand why people praised it so highly.

Okay, let me use another example. Ghost in the Shell, the TV series. I've watched a few episodes. I liked the series, thought it wasn't bad, but I know people who would call it one of their favorite anime ever. I'm not sure why. It's not a bad series! I kind of liked the episodes I saw, but I didn't think there was anything unique or special about it. I'm not sure why people would call it their favorite or even put it in their top 10.

You might have a problem with say, the use of magic. Okay, that's fine, but most people don't, and FMA is a well-written series (barring the later episodes of the first one). It has well-done characters and plot and setting. It definitely deserves at least most of the praise it gets.

What I'm trying to say is, if you have a problem with content, that doesn't automatically make that series a bad series. It also doesn't automatically make it unworthy of praise. Let's take Ninja Scroll. I liked Ninja Scroll, but Subtle Doc didn't. His criticism of it extended a bit beyond "I didn't like the content" though. He thought it didn't have a very good story. And hey, I'll be the first to admit. The story of Ninja Scroll? Pretty weak. His feelings were that the story kind of sucked, the characters kind of sucked, and the content was just making a bad thing worse.

If you don't like green shirts, then don't try and say an anime sucks just because it has green shirts in it. An anime can be the best ever written, a masterpiece, that has green shirts. Just because YOU don't like green shirts and refuse to watch it because green shirts are in it, though, doesn't mean the anime isn't worthy of being heralded as a masterpiece.

Also cue standard statement about content in the Bible, etc.

EDIT: I'm with Atria on the Elfen Lied/Higurashi thing though. Seeing the main character in Elfen Lied cut heads off and tear people's bodies apart while walking around naked? Doesn't bother me at all. Seeing someone hammer nails into each individual finger joint in Higurashi? That makes me feel uncomfortable. XD

It's kind of like how some people can watch a show where people get shot or decapitated and don't flinch, but they see someone get stuck with a needle and they freak out.

[Radical Dreamer]

Agreed, that side of the conversation can cool down. XD Return to the topic at hand, dudes.

[Tamachan319]

I think AzuDi is a bit overhyped. It just doesn't really seem that funny to me. There were some episodes, and some moments, that really made me laugh or feel, but for about half of it, it just seemed... bland.

I completely agree! My sister just loves it, but after a while, I just got bored of it. It wasn't that it was "bad", but just...as you said, bland.


I also am not a huge adorer of Lucky Star. Like AzuDi, it's not terrible, but I just didn't enjoy watching a show that was just funny moments. It doesn't have much for a plot (mostly just random parts of everyday life), and it just felt...dull.

I guess I'm not much for fully four-panel type stories, am I?

[Nate]

I think it's just difficult to adapt a four-panel comic into a full half-hour TV show because you can't use the same type of humor. You can have short, small gags in four panels but you can't do that kind of thing in a half-hour TV show.

This is why the old Garfield and Friends cartoon was so good. They knew that the type of humor the comic strip employed wouldn't work in the cartoon, so they just did their own thing and had Garfield go on wacky adventures with silly characters that couldn't have been used in the comic (like the Buddy Bears). It was actually BETTER than the comic strip, although that's partially due to the fact that the Garfield comic has about ten jokes that it tells over and over again.

[airichan623]

I think he knows what he's doing when it comes to writing, too. One Piece easily outclasses Naruto just on artistic merit alone, IMO. Let's not even start on how much better written it is than those two.

You could potentially argue that.... but I will refrain.

I'll tell you another show that doesn't deserve to be as well-liked as it is: Gundam SEED. Here, have an analogy:

Gundam SEED : ShiroiHikari :: Last Exile : Fish.

:waah!: In defense of SEED- Gundam SEED is one of those series that for me as I'm watching I'm thinking "this is so lame..." and yet I'm still addictedly watching. And for fans of the original Gundam, SEED is utter trash. But, from what I heard, SEED is far more character based, focusing on whose inside the cockpit not what they are doing in the cockpit. As a friend of mine wisely put it: "I always thought the original was more like transformers" (shes seen most Gundam series)

Let me put into words everyone will understand:
[SIZE="2"] Case closed. Sheesh.

Easy, hun. Sarcasm can easily create conflict (and Nate, do refrain from debating sometimes)

For me, Lucky Star was a letdown for me. I liked Konata, but I realized that instead of modern anime jokes, they are all nostalgia jokes. darn. Azumanga was better. And Azumanga Daioh isn't that great, but they are even more hilarious when you know people like them.

And for me, Bleach was boring for me. Liked the cast, but bored to death by battle, battle, secret technique, blah, blah blah....

[ShiroiHikari]

And for fans of the original Gundam, SEED is utter trash.

Yeah, I'm with you there.

But, from what I heard, SEED is far more character based, focusing on whose inside the cockpit not what they are doing in the cockpit. As a friend of mine wisely put it: "I always thought the original was more like transformers" (shes seen most Gundam series)

...

You lost me again.

Your friend is wrong. Gundam is nothing like Transformers at all, except they both have giant robots in them. Gundam is also not necessarily about what they are doing in the cockpit. It's about characters just as much as SEED supposedly is, if not more so.

[blkmage]

For me, Lucky Star was a letdown for me. I liked Konata, but I realized that instead of modern anime jokes, they are all nostalgia jokes.

Actually, I think Lucky Star's anime jokes are that they're more Japanese. As much as we might not like it, the otaku subculture in Japan is very different from the one outside of Japan. Like you mentioned, there's a lot of assumed history there, but there are a ton of other things that probably don't translate as well. These are things like Comiket and doujin culture or light novels or seiyuu jokes (I wonder how many people got the Yuko Goto jokes) or Japanese memes and a bunch of other extremely Japanese things.

I think it's just difficult to adapt a four-panel comic into a full half-hour TV show because you can't use the same type of humor. You can have short, small gags in four panels but you can't do that kind of thing in a half-hour TV show.

This is actually one of the reasons I think that the second season of K-ON! was so much more enjoyable than the first. The first really stuck to the 4-koma pretty closely, while the second season had a lot more of KyoAni's adaptation touch.

[Atria35]

EDIT: I'm with Atria on the Elfen Lied/Higurashi thing though. Seeing the main character in Elfen Lied cut heads off and tear people's bodies apart while walking around naked? Doesn't bother me at all. Seeing someone hammer nails into each individual finger joint in Higurashi? That makes me feel uncomfortable. XD

It's kind of like how some people can watch a show where people get shot or decapitated and don't flinch, but they see someone get stuck with a needle and they freak out.

Nate, you're awesome.

My thank-you

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I think it's just difficult to adapt a four-panel comic into a full half-hour TV show because you can't use the same type of humor. You can have short, small gags in four panels but you can't do that kind of thing in a half-hour TV show.

This is why the old Garfield and Friends cartoon was so good. They knew that the type of humor the comic strip employed wouldn't work in the cartoon, so they just did their own thing and had Garfield go on wacky adventures with silly characters that couldn't have been used in the comic (like the Buddy Bears). It was actually BETTER than the comic strip, although that's partially due to the fact that the Garfield comic has about ten jokes that it tells over and over again.

I suppose I'd probably have to agree with this, but I haven't seen enough of the anime to say it definitely.

[rocklobster]

Ally, you have to realize you can't impose your Christian views on everyone. Japan is not a Christian country. That's why its anime has so little "Christian" stuff in it. I guess you don't like Narnia because it has magic in it. GUESS WHAT? Lewis used magic as a medium, creating a world where God and magic could exist and using it to teach Biblical values.

[Nate]

I don't think Ally is imposing her values on anyone. I don't recall her saying that no one should watch the show, just that she didn't want to watch it.

She might not like Narnia, I don't know. I won't speak for her. But if she doesn't like the Narnia books, then I'm sure she doesn't care what Lewis did with magic in the books. However, she also might not care about the magic in the Narnia books. Remember, she said her problem with FMA was that the alchemy the good guys used looked like "dark magic." I'm not sure if she has a problem with good guys using magic at all, or just magic that looks questionable.

Either way, if she doesn't want good guys to use magic at all, she won't like the Narnia books. And so what? It's her opinion. She's fully entitled to it. She isn't required to like the Narnia books just because she's Christian. If they make her uncomfortable, she's not a lesser Christian, and she's not doing anything wrong. And I would hate for her personal convictions to get attacked.

[rocklobster]

I had the caps lock on accidentally. Sorry

[MightiMidget]

I second Nate, Rock. She just has an opinion that she should not have to defend on this forum. Ally isn't imposing her "Christian values" on anyone, she had an opinion that she stated. If something makes her uncomfortable, and she states it (magic, not magic, whatever!) there is no reason to shoot her down. She's not telling anyone they're going to hell for liking Bleach or magic.

As for Narnia, Narnia is not the Bible and some people can have issues with that too. If someone has a different conviction than someone else, there is no reason to chew them out for it.

In addition, I am not a big fan of Miyazaki, and don't see what makes him particularly stand out? (granted I've only seen four of his movies) I like Howl's Moving Castle and Kiki's Delivery Service, but as for Nausicaa and Ponyo...am I just missing "the" movie?

[TWWK]

In addition, I am not a big fan of Miyazaki, and don't see what makes him particularly stand out? (granted I've only seen four of his movies) I like Howl's Moving Castle and Kiki's Delivery Service, but as for Nausicaa and Ponyo...am I just missing "the" movie?

I think that Ponyo is clearly in the bottom third of his movies. Nausicaa is a personal favorite, but also probably isn't one his very best. I would say you're missing three big ones - Spirited Away, which was the pioneering Oscar winner]My Neighbor Totoro[/I], which I think the most magical and heartwarming of his films; and Princess Mononoke, which might most appeal to the typical anime fan and is very different in tone (though not message) from his other movies. Others might also add Porco Rosso and Castle in the Sky to this mix.

As long as we're talking Miyazaki, I guess I'll add that I didn't like Ponyo much - it's easily my least favorite of his films. I pretty much LOVE everything else, but Ponyo, for all the wonderful animation, feels very garbled and forced.

[Nate]

I think I'm still the only anime fan in the entire world that's never seen a Miyazaki film. <.< >.>

[blkmage]

I think I'm still the only anime fan in the entire world that's never seen a Miyazaki film. <.< >.>

This was me until June last year.

[Radical Dreamer]

I think I'm still the only anime fan in the entire world that's never seen a Miyazaki film. <.< >.>

You aren't really missing out. XD They aren't everything that some people usually rave about. The animation is nice, but solid storylines are often not to be found. XD

Except for Castle in the Sky. It's the best. XD

[MightiMidget]

I think that Ponyo is clearly in the bottom third of his movies. Nausicaa is a personal favorite, but also probably isn't one his very best. I would say you're missing three big ones - Spirited Away, which was the pioneering Oscar winner]My Neighbor Totoro[/I], which I think the most magical and heartwarming of his films; and Princess Mononoke, which might most appeal to the typical anime fan and is very different in tone (though not message) from his other movies. Others might also add Porco Rosso and Castle in the Sky to this mix.

As long as we're talking Miyazaki, I guess I'll add that I didn't like Ponyo much - it's easily my least favorite of his films. I pretty much LOVE everything else, but Ponyo, for all the wonderful animation, feels very garbled and forced.

Okay, noted! Me and some friends are planning to watch Totoro tomorrow, so that will be one down!

[Shao Feng-Li]

I've never really HATED any anime, but I have plenty that I don't like. For example, I watched the first episode of Full Metal Alchemist, and to tell you the truth, it really looked like dark magic to me. And it was the good guys using it. I've never seen Death Note, but I've heard about it, and quite frankly, I believe that only God has the power to give life and take it away. Not a guy with a notebook, even if it is crime he's eliminating. I also watched the first episode of Bleach. Death gods that are good-- no, scratch that-- ANY living being that takes life away other than God, even if they send the soul to Heaven or "The Soul Society" isn't their job]

In defense of Death Note, it's actually a bad thing that man has the death note. All the characters who have on are antagonists. Death Note is kinda like "What if death gods existed and what if they had notebooks and what if humans got one." You just read it in the story's context. No one's trying to make out death notes and what not to be real.

Anyway...

I don't have a whole lot more to add. Just Naruto, Bleach, One piece, etc. Especially Naruto. How many flash backs in one episode do we need. And Howl's Moving Castle. Like...

Like, turnip head is a missing prince? Why wasn't there anything leading up to that at all? I mean, really? I still don't understand it.

And, Fruits Basket. It's been a while since I watched it, but there was no closure. .hack//SIGN is actually kinda really boring. Though, I love the soundtracks.

I don't know if this movie has tons of praise, but HOLY CRAP STEAMBOY. Why did I even buy this movie. It was really, which sucks since the animation is spectacular. And Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. Uhmm, what? Oh COOL! SEPHIROTH!

[Nate]

Especially Naruto. How many flash backs in one episode do we need.

It's not just Naruto. I've noticed in Sentai/Rider that they'll do flashbacks to stuff that literally happened five minutes before all the time. It must just be a kids' show thing. Japan has no faith in their children to remember things past five minutes apparently.

[ShiroiHikari]

I think I'm still the only anime fan in the entire world that's never seen a Miyazaki film. <.< >.>

You should watch My Neighbor Totoro if you like fun, imaginative type movies. Personally I think that's the best one he ever made.

[Shao Feng-Li]

It's not just Naruto. I've noticed in Sentai/Rider that they'll do flashbacks to stuff that literally happened five minutes before all the time. It must just be a kids' show thing. Japan has no faith in their children to remember things past five minutes apparently.

Explains why there's 9000+ episodes of Naruto. There's only five minutes of progressive story each episode.

[Lynna]

Okay, I'm probably going to get avalanched for this, but I Didn't really Love Ouran High School Host Club.
Yes, I said it.
I liked it, but I didn't Love it, and I don't think it's as good as people say. I don't know why, but it just didn't pull me in. Well, It did a first. I loved it! But then...it seemed to lose somethign. Maybe it's because the characters feelings are painfully obvious, but they just tottolly ignored them. It just wasn't very inteanse, and after while, I didn't find it very funny either. It just became sort of boring. Somehow things became a little predictable. now, there's some stuff about it I really liked, but I fealt they could have dug a lot deeper. It just seemed a little empty, and didn't really meet my high expectations.
And Ally-Anna, I disagree that Alchemy is dark magic, since I'm sensative( really sensative) to that stuff, but I managed to get through FMA fine. (I did think the second one was a lot less heavy) However, if this is how you feel, I'm not going to say you have to watch it. Just keep in mind though that alchemy doesn't equal magic. As to what Ed and Al did at the beggining, it's mostly the worst of it. Just sayin'.

I think I'm still the only anime fan in the entire world that's never seen a Miyazaki film. <.< >.>

Me neither. Unless 5cm/s was one of them....

[Wallachia]

What an interesting thread.

I have a couple of series to state my opinion on here, so please do forgive the massive amount of text.

Black Lagoon
The different stories in most of the episodes were quite boring. I have to say that the first episode seemed like it was setting up an interesting story, but I wasn't prepared for the episodic nature since I had recently been on a spree of shows that didn't budge from their tale.

Perhaps my biggest gripe with this series would be the scenes where, say Revy, is simply walking down hallways killing people. After this, she still comes out completely unscathed.
It's been a long time since I watched this though, so my memory is a bit hazy.

I actually kind of enjoyed the Roberta arc, but I could care less for the rest of the season as well as The Second Barrage. (Though the second season had a couple of moments I cared for too, but never whole episodes.)

I don't get why people like this unless they honestly give it praise because they think badmouthed, invincible characters like Revy are awesome incarnate. I found her constant drivel to get old amazingly fast and I never felt like I was given anything to make me sympathize with her or any of the other characters.
The only people I enjoyed were Rock and perhaps Balalaika since I found her interesting at times. Let's not get into the nuns, they drove me up the wall and I detested them.

Elfen Lied
More of the slow, "I'm walking down a hallway killing things." stuff here only way worse.

Most of the time none of the main characters acted in a believable manner during the scenes where you'd expect them to.

Again, I think it's another show that's praised for something that I can't understand in the least. Blood, gore, and nudity all heaped into one big pile for pure shock value.
The plot and characters were horribly stitched together and consistently shoved aside to make room for more carnage.

I must say, these shows were simply bad. I loved the episodic adventures in Cowboy Bebop and Mushishi's slow, calm tales. None of it bored me one bit and both usually head meaning behind them, unlike Black Lagoon's.
Even Monster's mature themes weren't there for shock value, but were there to portray the realism of it's story, unlike Elfen Lied's. (I realize this isn't really a fair comparison.)
Then there's Baccano! or Ghost in the Shell. Both of those are good series as well that didn't rely on their off-color content to get by.

[MightiMidget]

I will second on .hack//sign. When I finished it I was oh so proud of myself because I found it so, utterly dull. Nothing. Happened. Until like. The last 5 or so episodes. Blargh.

[Rocketshipper]

I'll second Steamboy. It had pretty good animation and visual designs, but the plot was just so-so.