Four in 10 say marriage is becoming obsolete

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Four in 10 say marriage is becoming obsolete

Postby Lilac#18 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:28 pm

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Yahoo wrote:WASHINGTON –]

When asked what constitutes a family, the vast majority of Americans agree that a married couple, with or without children, fits that description. But four of five surveyed pointed also to an unmarried, opposite-sex couple with children or a single parent. Three of 5 people said a same-sex couple with children was a family.

"Marriage is still very important in this country, but it doesn't dominate family life like it used to," said Andrew Cherlin, a professor of sociology and public policy at Johns Hopkins University. "Now there are several ways to have a successful family life, and more people accept them."

The broadening views of family are expected to have an impact at Thanksgiving. About nine in 10 Americans say they will share a Thanksgiving meal next week with family, sitting at a table with 12 people on average. About one-fourth of respondents said there will be 20 or more family members.

"More Americans are living in these new families, so it seems safe to assume that there will be more of them around the Thanksgiving dinner table," said Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center.

The changing views of family are being driven largely by young adults 18-29, who are more likely than older generations to have an unmarried or divorced parent or have friends who do. Young adults also tend to have more liberal attitudes when it comes to spousal roles and living together before marriage, the survey found.

[Related: Sudden celebrity splits]

But economic factors, too, are playing a role. The Census Bureau recently reported that opposite-sex unmarried couples living together jumped 13 percent this year to 7.5 million. It was a sharp one-year increase that analysts largely attributed to people unwilling to make long-term marriage commitments in the face of persistent unemployment.

Beginning next year, the Census Bureau will publish new, supplemental poverty figures that move away from the traditional concept of family as a husband and wife with two children. It will broaden the definition to include unmarried couples, such as same-sex partners, as well as foster children who are not related by blood or adoption.

Officials say such a move will reduce the number of families and children who are considered poor based on the new supplemental measure, which will be used as a guide for federal and state agencies to set anti-poverty policies. That's because two unmarried partners who live together with children and work are currently not counted by census as a single "family" with higher pooled incomes, but are officially defined as two separate units — one being a single parent and child, the other a single person — who aren't sharing household resources.

"People are rethinking what family means," Cherlin said. "Given the growth, I think we need to accept cohabitation relationships as a basis for some of the fringe benefits offered to families, such as health insurance."

Still, the study indicates that marriage isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Despite a growing view that marriage may not be necessary, 67 percent of Americans were upbeat about the future of marriage and family. That's higher than their optimism for the nation's educational system (50 percent), economy (46 percent) or its morals and ethics (41 percent).

And about half of all currently unmarried adults, 46 percent, say they want to get married. Among those unmarried who are living with a partner, the share rises to 64 percent.

Other findings:

_About 34 percent of Americans called the growing variety of family living arrangements good for society, while 32 percent said it didn't make a difference and 29 percent said it was troubling.

_About 44 percent of people say they have lived with a partner without being married; for 30-to-49-year-olds, that share rose to 57 percent. In most cases, those couples said they considered cohabitation as a step toward marriage.

_About 62 percent say that the best marriage is one where the husband and wife both work and both take care of the household and children. That's up from 48 percent who held that view in 1977.

The Pew study was based on interviews with 2,691 adults by cell phone or landline from Oct. 1-21. The survey has a total margin of error of plus or minus 2.6 percentage points, larger for subgroups. Pew also analyzed 2008 census data, and used surveys conducted by Time magazine to identify trends from earlier decades.


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Postby Sparx00 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:37 pm

... Thats weird.
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Postby Rusty Claymore » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:47 pm

4/4 of those people's marriages/love life's are a wreck. XP
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Postby armeck » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:59 pm

surprised it's only one in three kids...
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Postby Furen » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:02 pm

That's just not right
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Postby Htom Sirveaux » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:15 pm

I'm just surprised the fraction "four in ten" wasn't simply reduced to "two in five".
Gosh, why would I notice that? I hate math.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:21 pm

Interesting stuff. I think "family" is indeed a lot broader than just "married couple with two kids". Also-- and I speak from personal experience --sometimes friends can make for better "family" than your blood relatives do.
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Postby ashfire » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:32 pm

I have known many friends and family members who have lived together and either marry or not. Some have had children or cared for the children of the person they live or have lived with.
Some have had family situations that made them not want to marry because they have seen the problems when the family breaks up.
I have had people tell me I am lucky because I have never married and still single and at this time not involved with someone, but you do feel the need for someone to be with.
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Postby Nate » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:52 pm

I don't think it's becoming obsolete, really. The problem is what the study is focusing on, which is the family. I think marriage is becoming obsolete as far as having a family, which I think doesn't really matter.

But marriage by itself won't become obsolete, as it provides stability, as well as legal benefits such as shared health coverage, hospital visitation, inheritance, tax benefits, and so on.

So yeah the title of that article is a bit misleading. It should probably say something like "Four in ten say marriage is not necessary for a family."
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Postby armeck » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:16 pm

ShiroiHikari (post: 1438129) wrote:Interesting stuff. I think "family" is indeed a lot broader than just "married couple with two kids". Also-- and I speak from personal experience --sometimes friends can make for better "family" than your blood relatives do.


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Postby Atria35 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:01 pm

ShiroiHikari (post: 1438129) wrote:Interesting stuff. I think "family" is indeed a lot broader than just "married couple with two kids". Also-- and I speak from personal experience --sometimes friends can make for better "family" than your blood relatives do.


True dat.

They're also mixing 'marriage' with 'family'- two different things.

But somehow, I'm not surprised about the marriage part. I'm surprised that, with the examples of marriages that I've seen, that I would ever want to be married- by all rhyme and reason I should hate the traditional idea of marriage and want nothing to do with it.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:04 pm

I am married, but my husband and I lived together for roughly a year and a half before we made it "official". A lot of people disapprove of co-habitation for whatever reasons, but it worked out very well for us.
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Postby mechana2015 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Anybody else get a giggle out of the parenthetical ads midway through the article?
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Postby Fish and Chips » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:15 am

I think obsolete was probably the wrong word to use. Doesn't that usually infer there's been a substantial upgrade or improved method?

If marriage is obsolete, what new OS are we adopting here?
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Postby TWWK » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:28 am

To me, a particularly telling and disappointing statistic comes at the end of the article:

About 62 percent say that the best marriage is one where the husband and wife both work and both take care of the household and children. That's up from 48 percent who held that view in 1977.

Best marriage? I personally don't believe that (most of the time); you may disagree, and you (and 62% of people) may very well be right! Or, and maybe more likely, it just depends on each individual case. But...is it too much of a stretch to say that this statistic add fuels to the fire of the argument that parents seem to be valuing finances and their personal goals at the same level (or above) their children? Or is that too much to imply?
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:45 am

[quote="TWWK (post: 1438302)"]To me, a particularly telling and disappointing statistic comes at the end of the article:

About 62 percent say that the best marriage is one where the husband and wife both work and both take care of the household and children. That's up from 48 percent who held that view in 1977.

Best marriage? I personally don't believe that (most of the time)]

I would say it's too much to imply. In the sort of economy we have today, a dual-income household is extremely helpful in raising children well on a financial level. Besides, having a dual income softens the blow that would be experienced if the employed spouse in a single-income household were to lose his or her job. At least with two working parents, there's a little more financial security when it comes to feeding your kids. XD And either way, whether both parents have a job or not, it should be obvious that both parents in an equal partnership should help with taking care of the household and raising children. XD
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:01 am

This Economy requires dual income if you want a mortgage and expensive car payments and whatnot. I'm not saying marriages where both partners work are bad or anything, I'm just saying it's not an absolute necessity.
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Postby TWWK » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:52 pm

Radical Dreamer (post: 1438322) wrote:In the sort of economy we have today, a dual-income household is extremely helpful in raising children well on a financial level. Besides, having a dual income softens the blow that would be experienced if the employed spouse in a single-income household were to lose his or her job. At least with two working parents, there's a little more financial security when it comes to feeding your kids. XD And either way, whether both parents have a job or not, it should be obvious that both parents in an equal partnership should help with taking care of the household and raising children. XD


Buuuuuut...what does "raising children well on a financial level" mean? I think most of us in the workforce who are Christian have probably thought about this idea some. How much is too much? What do our children need? Is $75,000 a year enough to live on? $50,000? $30,000?

When it comes to financial security, are we trusting in our own hands rather than God's? Of course, we can't sit back and just expect God to provide - that isn't biblical. We partner with God in doing His work, including the very act of living our lives.

ShiroiHikari (post: 1438333) wrote:This Economy requires dual income if you want a mortgage and expensive car payments and whatnot. I'm not saying marriages where both partners work are bad or anything, I'm just saying it's not an absolute necessity.


Playing devil's advocate, I think this is often true, but not always. Gosh, stuff is just SO expensive now. My house, for instance, costs THREE TIMES what my similar-sized house cost when I was a kid, and that was purchased 20 years ago - not extremely far back. And if you live on the coasts...unless you're making really good money, I think it's really hard to live a "middle class" life without going into debt.

But on the whole, I agree with what you're saying. Are we following the American dream or are we following God? If we take an honest look at where we spend our money, we might be surprised how materialistic we are when we may be better spenders than others we know - comparing ourselves to others, of course, can be a dangerous thing.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:23 pm

Eh, I was going to talk about expenses and whatnot, but I feel it'd be too off-topic.
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Postby Yamamaya » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:23 pm

Fish and Chips (post: 1438298) wrote:I think obsolete was probably the wrong word to use. Doesn't that usually infer there's been a substantial upgrade or improved method?

If marriage is obsolete, what new OS are we adopting here?


Hive mindset. There will be one queen designated the breeder for the entire community. All other females will be sterilized and become workers. Drones will only be kept in small numbers to ensure a strong gene pool for the colony.

On a serious note, marriage certainly won't becoming obsolete anytime soon. There's far too many benefits. The traditional family may be considered obsolete by many, but not necessarily marriage.
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Postby Nate » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:30 pm

Yeah I really don't see how anyone could be opposed to a marriage where both the mother and father work, and both the mother and father take care of the children and the house, unless you're stuck in a misogynistic "The MAN earns the money and the WOMAN'S job is in the kitchen!" thought process.

I grew up in a household where my mom and dad both worked and I think it was a very loving family, and worked well. My mom and dad both took interest in us kids, and were involved in our upbringing. My dad would sometimes cook dinner, and do dishes, and clean up around the house. He was a great man who would never even think of saying "That's woman's work!" and have my mom do it all.

Likewise, we live in a VERY nice house. So nice, in fact, that most kids at our school thought we were rich because of how nice it is, when in reality we were middle class. The mortgage on that house was extremely expensive because of how nice it was, and even though we didn't have brand new cars, and have a well rather than water from the city, food for a family of five (especially three young boys) combined with mortgage, insurance, and all sorts of other stuff, was pretty dang expensive. And that's not even factoring in if mom and dad wanted money to spend on nice things for themselves, or for us kids too. So both my mom and my dad earning money was definitely for the best.
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Postby Lynna » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:28 pm

When We were homeschooled, my mom stayed home and taught us, and I have to say that has really been a blessing in my life. But When We started going to school, she started working, and that has also been good, because if the mother isn't needed home all day long, then she would probably feel better doing something productive. But to each their own. I think it all depends on preferance, although My friend's parent's are always at work, and that hasn't been very good for her
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Postby Nate » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:50 pm

Oh I agree that both parents being at work all the time would be a bad thing. I'm just saying both parents working isn't a problem.
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Postby Beau Soir » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:03 pm

This makes me sad.

I know my brother "doesn't believe in marriage" and neither does his pregnant girlfriend. My brother has pledged to raise the child as if she were his, and he's living with his girlfriend- to be a family, but without marriage.

But like Nate said, there's stability and legal benefits such as shared health coverage, hospital visitation, inheritance, and tax benefits that come with marriage.
So there may come a time in the future that they'll want said benefits and marry anyway... or at least that's what my parents and I hope for.
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Postby armeck » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:52 pm

why would someone live like they are married without getting married?
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Postby Tamachan319 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:15 pm

Sad.

To add my thoughts to the mix, my mom has been a elementary teacher for the vast majority of my life, and it really hasn't affected her being a good mom. To each his (or her, in this case) own on the "should-mothers-work-question" , I guess, but while I would say overworking is bad for a family, working as a parent isn't necessarily bad.
But I'm just repeating what's already been said.

The sad thing is that people say marriage is oboselete.
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Postby KougaHane » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:18 pm

Marriage isn't becoming obsolete, but it's certainly getting less and less popularity. Seriously, we have jokes now. Marriage jokes. I was recently told by a co-worker to never marry. It's some ridiculous male view that if you get married you are suddenly a slave to your wife and must do her bidding and she automatically becomes a vicious hateful tyrant. But the truth is that we are who we make ourselves to be. We ALWAYS have a choice. Many men take this irresponsible view because it makes it look like all problems can be blamed on their "totalitarian" wife, when in actuality they were the ones who chose to get married in the first place. When I hear people say rude or sarcastic spousal comments, my first thought is to scream "WHY DID YOU GET MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE MORON?!" But I usually keep a level head about it.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:48 pm

You guys keep saying "it's sad, it's sad". Care to give some reasons for that sentiment?

Maybe people don't want the piece of paper because they don't have the money, or feel it's a waste of money, or don't have money for a ceremony, or a host of other reasons. If people love each other and are good to each other and support each other but they don't want to make it "legal" then what's the big deal?

I'll tell you what, if I had been legally married to my old live-in boyfriend, it would have been an even bigger mess than it already was. Since we were not legally married, all I had to do was pack my crap and hit the road. No big legal mess, no kids, none of that. And I needed to leave because the situation was not good for either of us. Marrying him would've been a huuuuuge mistake.
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Postby Dante » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:31 am

tom Sirveaux wrote:I'm just surprised the fraction "four in ten" wasn't simply reduced to "two in five".


I was looking at the post and wondering why the title didn't say 4 in 10 instead of four in 10... or at least four in ten.

___________

KougaHane wrote:When I hear people say rude or sarcastic spousal comments, my first thought is to scream "WHY DID YOU GET MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE MORON?!" But I usually keep a level head about it.


Probably because society and tradition told them it was the "right" thing to do.

___________

ShiroiHikari wrote:sometimes friends can make for better "family" than your blood relatives do.


Family is the set of people that truly love you, marriage and blood may or may not be an aspect of that affair. Blood is no longer thicker then water. This is my opinion.

With 40-60% of new marriages ending in divorce, we have many people who are the result of families with split time between parents, or time with only one parent in the household, or step-parents or other conditions. Even among the "traditional" families, there are always those where one spouse dies during the raising of children or is forced to leave on military duty or work related activities. Many of these children do not wish to live their lives saying "My life is lacking because of what fate has cast upon my family." Instead, they choose to redefine the concept of family in a more liberal manner, expanding it to contain their circumstance and other views. If the tradition wasn't held by their parents, it's no longer a "tradition". Like an orphan that focuses on being thankful for the new adoptive parents he/she gains, they become thankful for the family they still have, instead regretting the one they didn't, and in turn, incorporate that viewpoint into what a family "can" be. It's not sad, if they can re-acquire a sense of security in society by a simple change in definition, that's a very powerful achievement in fact - and who is to say their new definition is wrong?

This of course, is only a hypothesis as to the origin of these results. There would have to be more evidence focused on the personal history of the people involved and that of their close relations to provide evidence of the true origin of this change in perspective.
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Postby TopazRaven » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:52 am

Hm, well here is my view on the whole matter. I do believe in marriage, but you better make sure it's the right person, the person you want to be with forever, before you marry them. If you don't that could lead to a lot of problems later on. I'm of the belief you don't fully know a person until you live with them for example. Living like a family or a married couple before actually getting married can show you what your future may be like. Meanwhile this article seems to be mixing marriage with family which is kind of different as everyone else has already mentioned.
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