[Mature] Views On Sexuality

[K. Ayato]

It was my husband's honesty and sincerity that first attracted me to him. That God made him handsome is just a bonus .

[Nate]

The key points/purposes of marriage ceremony are that it involves the community (people you know), and gives them an opportunity to show their support, approval of the union, and join in celebrating.

By that definition, "quickie" marriage places in Vegas wouldn't really be marriages. But they're legally binding. Whether you agree with quickie marriages or not is irrelevant, the point is that saying that the ceremony is important to marriage is already proven as false. Heck, my mom got married in secret a couple of years back, no one in the family knew until she came back home and said "I'm remarried now."

Those things are nice but they are in no way necessary for a marriage.

[K. Ayato]

This thread's been going all over the place. Anything in regards to the original topic that has yet to be discussed?

[TopazRaven]

This thread's been going all over the place. Anything in regards to the original topic that has yet to be discussed?

No, I think everything has been covered for the most part. I find it kind of amusing how many different topics have been talked about in a single thread.

[TGJesusfreak]

I'm young... and obviously most of you wont care what I say. But I think God wants us to save "IT" for only ONE person in life. That person you should be married to in the eyes of man as well as God.

Marraige in the eyes of God HAS to match that of the eyes of Man. Otherwise man sees it as a sin. "Avoid the very apearence of evil"

As to my walls of text. Is premarital sex bad? It is INFERRED as such many times. But never directly said.

There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer: “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality.

First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.

Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin:

Acts 15:20
1 Corinthians 5:1
1 Corinthians 6:13
1 Corinthians 6:18
1 Corinthians 10:8
2 Corinthians 12:21
Galations 5:19
Ephesians 5:3
1 Thessalonians 4:3
Jude 7

The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves

(Hebrews 13:4)
"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral."

And to get into deeper things that I beleive. Allow me to quote from a bible site:

Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing that there is another aspect—procreation. For a couple to engage in sex before marriage is doubly wrong—they are enjoying pleasures not intended for them, and they are taking a chance of creating a human life outside of the family structure God intended for every child.

While practicality does not determine right from wrong, if the Bible's message on sex before marriage were obeyed, there would be far fewer sexually transmitted diseases, far fewer abortions, far fewer unwed mothers and unwanted pregnancies, and far fewer children growing up without both parents in their lives. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies and, most importantly, honors God.

THAT is what I think. And Nate can fully disagree with me. It's more of a question if you love the person enough to RESIST. I'm young and ignorant on a lot of things... but this I have a lot of proof for. (Nate will argue the biblical proof I'm sure... which is fine honest debate is nice.)

ANYWAY! XDDDD Go about your normal day! I just needed to rant. XD

[armeck]

this has been one very interesting thread to watch

[TopazRaven]

Indeed it has.

In the end, I believe what I believe. The only one who can really answer any of my questions truthfully is God, so until I die I won't know. I can only hope I will be given the undeserved honor of meeting and speaking to him when that day comes. Some of my beliefs are questionable to other Christians, we've established that much. None the less, if I tried to hide away what I think and feel I would not only be lying to myself, but to God as well. He knows what's in my heart, he sees everything. So he already knows. I can only hope that if these thoughts and beliefs of mine really are wrong that he will have mercy on me on judgement day.

[Nate]

Marraige in the eyes of God HAS to match that of the eyes of Man.

I don't agree, based on the Vegas marriage places I mentioned before. Again, whether or not you think it's wrong is a moot point, because those ARE legally recognized marriages performed at those places. But how many people are going to think that the two people there who did it are serious?

Likewise, what about a woman who marries a rich man just to get his money and doesn't love him? To the eyes of man, they're fully married, completely and totally. Is that an honorable marriage in the eyes of God?

I have also seen couples who marry against the will of their parents and sometimes the parents will even say "I don't recognize that person as your husband/wife." Does the marriage in the eyes of God match the eyes of man in that instance?

Reducing marriage to the legal status the government conveys on it cheapens marriage, and whether or not people recognize a marriage is completely different from whether or not God recognizes a marriage. In fact, doesn't the Bible say something about human intent?

Something about "If you look at a woman with lustful thoughts, you've already committed adultery. If you hate your brother, you've committed murder." In the eyes of man, you've done nothing wrong in either instance. Hating someone will not make the police come arrest you for murder. But to God, you've already done it. It's just as bad in His eyes. This should be proof enough that the eyes of man and the eyes of God are not equal and do not (and should not) view things similarly.

"Avoid the very apearence of evil"

Thought of as a mistranslation. Especially when you consider what people think of as evil. I could go very political here, but I won't, but I will say if you believe that verse then never vote, ever, because no matter which party you vote for, you're appearing to be evil.
[quote]is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yesâ€

[TGJesusfreak]

You and I profoundly disagree Nate. But that's fine. Gentleman's disagreement it is. Most topics have already been convered anyway. My opinions are out there and open. No point is restating it.

[Atria35]

I'm young... and obviously most of you wont care what I say. But I think God wants us to save "IT" for only ONE person in life. That person you should be married to in the eyes of man as well as God.

Really? Then what about men and women who's spouses have died? They can't remarry and have sex with their new spouses? Or what about divorced couples? They can't remarry and have relations with their new spouses either?

I'm also agreeing with Nate on the family structure situation- I grew up with a kid who's parents were married- but dumped him with his grandparents to raise him. Marriage doesn't always provide the familial security that we think it does.

[Nate]

I forgot to cover that, but thanks for bringing that up, Atria. By your definition, TG, it is wrong and sinful for my mom to have sex with her current husband, who she married after my father died.

Or what if a woman marries an abusive husband and escapes from him and divorces him, but later remarries a man who loves her and treats her right? By your statement that God has only ONE person He wants us to do that with, she wouldn't be able to have sex with her new husband.

Sorry, I don't accept that view. God does not always intend for us to have one and only one person for us.

[armeck]

in Leviticus, it says that if a man seduces a virgin and has sex with her, he is to marry her and pay the price of marriage (this is not an exact quote, if someone wants one i can give them one) but if the virgins, father wont give her to the man than he is to still pay the price.. it doesn't say anything about stoning them like it does adultery. it just says they should be married...

[TheSubtleDoctor]

[quote="K. Ayato (post: 1436476)"]It was my husband's honesty and sincerity that first attracted me to him. That God made him handsome is just a bonus ]Aw, what a nice thing to say. You are a good wife =).

[Htom Sirveaux]

Go easy on TG, eh? It's just a matter of youthful naivete, which there's nothing wrong with. When I was a teenager, I had strong, half-formed opinions on a million different topics, all based on what someone else told me and I hadn't yet myself given much real thought to. I believed with a certainty that Men And Women Should Never, Under Any Circumstances Have Sex Before Marriage Because It Is Bad. I couldn't imagine people fooling around outside the Sanctity Of Marriage, because who would be dumb enough to want Bad Things to happen to them? After all, You're Worth Waiting For. It was simple, really. But after highschool, when I ceased to be seen by all the girls as a weak, pathetic spaz, I realized the world is rougher than what parents and teachers prepare you for. I've had my chances for fun. I've passed them all up so far, but it hasn't been easy. Not that I'm constantly fending off beautiful wimminz with a pointy stick, of course.

[Ante Bellum]

I don't think I'm really asexual. I mean, I am attracted to men, I just don't personally want to have sex with any of them. I see a guy and sometimes think, 'oh he's cute/handsome/hot/you get the point!' (Now that I think about it, is that considered lusting?) Though in all honesty personality mattes more to me then looks any day! It's not going to do you any good if the guy is great looking but is also a huge jerk now is it? xD

Asexual people can be attracted to others, either by looks or personality. They can have a romance drive and, heck, even have sex. Being asexual means that you aren't sexually attracted to anyone. Not that this can't change...

[K. Ayato]

Aw, what a nice thing to say. You are a good wife =).

Thanks . Just doing my best in applying the principles of Love & Respect. There's also the special connection we share in that we can feel what the other feels during a given situation. A gift .

[Radical Dreamer]

Or what about divorced couples? They can't remarry and have relations with their new spouses either?

I don't want to get too far into this, for the same reasons that we closed the divorce thread a few weeks ago, but I would like to point this out:

31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[a] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

[quote="Matthew 19"]3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?â€

[Atria35]

I don't want to get too far into this, for the same reasons that we closed the divorce thread a few weeks ago, but I would like to point this out:

Emphasis mine, but otherwise, I'll let that speak for itself. XD

But divorce happens anyway, so while it would be nice if it were a perfect world....

(I also hold that Jesus wouldn't want women sticking around men who beat them and their kids)

[TopazRaven]

But divorce happens anyway, so while it would be nice if it were a perfect world....

(I also hold that Jesus wouldn't want women sticking around men who beat them and their kids)

I agree. A woman should not have to stay with a man who beats her or her children. Some people say, well the man can change! Want to know the sad truth though? Some men in these situations don't want to change. They don't think they are doing anything wrong.

[Radical Dreamer]

But divorce happens anyway, so while it would be nice if it were a perfect world....

(I also hold that Jesus wouldn't want women sticking around men who beat them and their kids)

Yeah, actually, in my own Bible (I quoted those from biblegateway.com), the term is "except for marital unfaithfulness." That might be referring to adultery, but I'd also file "beating your wife and children" under marital unfaithfulness. XD Just to be clear. XD

[Cognitive Gear]

(I also hold that Jesus wouldn't want women sticking around men who beat them and their kids)

I agree! In His defense, women weren't allowed to divorce their husbands at all back then, so it's not something he could have really commented on. XD

[TGJesusfreak]

Really? Then what about men and women who's spouses have died? They can't remarry and have sex with their new spouses? Or what about divorced couples? They can't remarry and have relations with their new spouses either?

I'm also agreeing with Nate on the family structure situation- I grew up with a kid who's parents were married- but dumped him with his grandparents to raise him. Marriage doesn't always provide the familial security that we think it does.

I do beleive that paul odes adress some of these things. I never meant people to tak ti like that. Really. I mean that it SHOULD be saved for the right person.

And I am just a kid. But i think that we must tread carefully. I don't think that christianity is as black and white as some people think. it depends to me... on what GOD wants for your life

[steenajack]

Okay, I think there is a little misinterpretation going on what TG said. I don't think he meant that a person can't remarry and sleep with his/her new spouse. I think he was just saying that saving it for someone you marry is important.

I would like to say that I DO believe that saving your virginity for your spouse is important, why? Because it's a very special bond. Reguardless whether the Bible says it's a sin or not, is it even right to disreguard that bond? Sex symbolizes becoming one with someone. The two become one flesh. You're sharing yourself with them, giving them yourself. All of you, mind body and soul. It's a special bond. If you share it with someone, they are stuck to you for life. They'll always be a part of you, even if you break up with them. Okay, so say that two people do love each other, sleep together, then get married and have a happy life. Should their relationship be condemned? No. God loves them, just as much as He loves the couple who actually waited. Does that mean that sleeping with someone outside of marriage is okay? No. I believe that it's worth waiting for. Something you should save for that special someone, or at least whoever you're married to and love VERY much.

That being said, What IS marraige...really? I believe that when two people are joined before God (which can be done anywhere), then I believe they are. Think Adam and Eve, God joined them together and there wasn't a "ceremony" as far as we know. There wasn't a flouncy-white dress, or a wedding cake, or even a legal document. Heck no! They were straight naked in a garden surrounded by a bunch of gawking animals. The bride was the groom's rib for crying out loud! But, they were joined before God, as God as their witness. Cause if God says yes, than who can go against that really? Who can conquer over that and say, "God is wrong!"....No, God joined these people together for a reason.

Now, about whether we are joined with one person or blah blah blah...and all that. Some people do have interesting family trees. I don't think it's wrong to remarry after a spouse has died or you divorced or whatever. I'd say, follow where God is leading you. If He leads you to divorce someone because they are abusing you, then do it. If He leads you to someone new after wards, then by all means take what He has given you. If He leads you to remarry after your spouse dies, then go ahead.

The point is, what you believe is up to you. You have to be the one to choose what you really want/believe in life. Your faith is your own, it's up to you. You don't just believe cause you were "taught" to, you believe because you want to.

Nate, Atria, TG, TopazRaven, and everyone else here have put up some very convincing and thought provoking things. But, I'd hate to see us fighting over this. I don't want to be a backseat mod...I'd just hate for us to fight. I'm glad that the topic is being brought up though. Most Christian sites tend to push this kind of thing away, and it never gets discussed. But yeah, it's good to see what everyone thinks about it.

[TopazRaven]

Nate, Atria, TG, TopazRaven, and everyone else here have put up some very convincing and thought provoking things. But, I'd hate to see us fighting over this. I don't want to be a backseat mod...I'd just hate for us to fight. I'm glad that the topic is being brought up though. Most Christian sites tend to push this kind of thing away, and it never gets discussed. But yeah, it's good to see what everyone thinks about it.

I agree, let's not let this turn into a fight, though it seems only to be a mild argument/disagreement at the moment. Everyone has their own oppinion on the matter after all.

[TGJesusfreak]

Okay, I think there is a little misinterpretation going on what TG said. I don't think he meant that a person can't remarry and sleep with his/her new spouse. I think he was just saying that saving it for someone you marry is important.

I would like to say that I DO believe that saving your virginity for your spouse is important, why? Because it's a very special bond. Reguardless whether the Bible says it's a sin or not, is it even right to disreguard that bond? Sex symbolizes becoming one with someone. The two become one flesh. You're sharing yourself with them, giving them yourself. All of you, mind body and soul. It's a special bond. If you share it with someone, they are stuck to you for life. They'll always be a part of you, even if you break up with them. Okay, so say that two people do love each other, sleep together, then get married and have a happy life. Should their relationship be condemned? No. God loves them, just as much as He loves the couple who actually waited. Does that mean that sleeping with someone outside of marriage is okay? No. I believe that it's worth waiting for. Something you should save for that special someone, or at least whoever you're married to and love VERY much.

That being said, What IS marraige...really? I believe that when two people are joined before God (which can be done anywhere), then I believe they are. Think Adam and Eve, God joined them together and there wasn't a "ceremony" as far as we know. There wasn't a flouncy-white dress, or a wedding cake, or even a legal document. Heck no! They were straight naked in a garden surrounded by a bunch of gawking animals. The bride was the groom's rib for crying out loud! But, they were joined before God, as God as their witness. Cause if God says yes, than who can go against that really? Who can conquer over that and say, "God is wrong!"....No, God joined these people together for a reason.

Now, about whether we are joined with one person or blah blah blah...and all that. Some people do have interesting family trees. I don't think it's wrong to remarry after a spouse has died or you divorced or whatever. I'd say, follow where God is leading you. If He leads you to divorce someone because they are abusing you, then do it. If He leads you to someone new after wards, then by all means take what He has given you. If He leads you to remarry after your spouse dies, then go ahead.

The point is, what you believe is up to you. You have to be the one to choose what you really want/believe in life. Your faith is your own, it's up to you. You don't just believe cause you were "taught" to, you believe because you want to.

Nate, Atria, TG, TopazRaven, and everyone else here have put up some very convincing and thought provoking things. But, I'd hate to see us fighting over this. I don't want to be a backseat mod...I'd just hate for us to fight. I'm glad that the topic is being brought up though. Most Christian sites tend to push this kind of thing away, and it never gets discussed. But yeah, it's good to see what everyone thinks about it.

This is EXACTLY what I beleive. I agree with every word of this. (Steens and I almost ALWAYS agree on things it seems...).

I've bolded some of the things that would be my main point.

That being said, What IS marraige...really? I believe that when two people are joined before God (which can be done anywhere), then I believe they are. Think Adam and Eve, God joined them together and there wasn't a "ceremony" as far as we know. There wasn't a flouncy-white dress, or a wedding cake, or even a legal document. Heck no!

I agree. I think that this is the most important. I stand corrected on my previous comment.

[bkilbour]

... You know, I have known depressed people who ended up taking prozac or zoloft or what-have-you, and they changed. Changed seriously, like something died inside of them. If you have seen some other situation, great - but I'm simply using my own experiences to make the analogy.

In that same vein, those who fornicated changed in much the same way - only that, instead of their personality dying, they lost a lot of other things. They lost interest in doing the fun stuff we used to do together, they didn't really have the same drive or energy they used to have, and a faux-maturity settled in them that I ultimately found unsettling. They stopped going to church, or started arguing about "translations" of what the Bible meant when Scripture talked about purity. Or, if I showed them without a doubt that YES, God DOES want us to wait for marriage, they just got angry (no mattter how civil I was), and generally stopped talking to me.

Why?

Because sex feels good. In fact, the emotional and physical high from it is supposed to be more addictive than opium. And, having talked a lot with drug addicts before, I can tell you that no addict wants to be told he ought to stop or that what he's doing is wrong. You can tell him that it's bad for his health, that he's going to have to face consequences, etc., but he will do everything in his power to argue his way into keeping on snorting coke/smoking weed/doing meth/slamming horse/... or, dare I say it, fornicating.

I'm not saying I haven't had problems with pornography in the past, but I'm still a virgin, and I take garbage from my crew on the Ohio every day for it. Even the ones who "had other reasons" than just lust practically haze me over it.
And why? because it feels good to them, they don't want to stop, and a guy who hasn't joined in their sex-parade is just as bad as a guy who is screaming in their faces for it (which I never do. Funny how I still get yelled at, though). If there was nothing wrong with fornicating, even under "excusable circumstances," then this would not be the case, but it is. They went after the flesh, so they became of the flesh, and thus they war against the spirit, as the flesh does.

Man, it's depressing just talking about it.

[Nate]

Okay, I think there is a little misinterpretation going on what TG said. I don't think he meant that a person can't remarry and sleep with his/her new spouse. I think he was just saying that saving it for someone you marry is important.

Okay, but he did phrase it poorly then. He said, "But I think God wants us to save 'IT' for only ONE person in life." He even put emphasis on the word "one."

Now admittedly I've phrased things just as badly as that myself, so I'm not attacking him, but at the time I didn't know that he had expressed himself poorly and was responding to what he said rather than what he meant...hence the mention of remarriage and divorce.

Also, even in light of the verses Corrie posted about divorce and remarrying, I'd like to say it's a very touchy subject. Some people feel that staying in a marriage where they simply do not love the other person is unfair to their spouse, and that it is better to go their separate ways rather than staying in a loveless marriage, which can be stressful and actually very bad for all parties involved (even kids).

Further, the remarrying after divorce is tricky as well. I know a member here (I'll keep his username private, even though I'm sure he probably wouldn't mind even if I said it) who was the child of his mother's second marriage. I had mentioned the whole "Remarrying if you're divorced is sinful!" thing and his response was basically "So you're saying I shouldn't exist, then?" That's a pretty harsh statement to make, and that is in effect what I was saying, that his very existence was wrong. Again, personal things are personal, and I don't feel comfortable flinging verses at people.

... You know, I have known depressed people who ended up taking prozac or zoloft or what-have-you, and they changed. Changed seriously, like something died inside of them.

There's actually a very good explanation for that. There are different "levels" of depression. Some people have a very mild case, and some have a very severe case, and some fall in between. Prozac and Zoloft are meant for people who are in mild or moderate stages of depression. Prozac and Zoloft are not useful, and are actually harmful, for very severe cases of depression.

There is also the fact that drugs work differently on different people. A good example is me. I have some BC headache powder, and when I get a headache, if I take BC, it does nothing for me. Literally nothing. However, if I take Ibuprofen, my headache goes away remarkably fast. My body just doesn't react to the ingredients in BC, but does to Ibuprofen. There are people who are the opposite though, and Ibuprofen does nothing for them. Everyone's body is different, has different makeups and "personalities" and no drug is going to affect every person exactly the same way.

It has to do with how the drugs work, we went over it when I took basic psychology in college, but obviously we didn't get into the specific details of the mechanism. At any rate, yeah, it's not exactly uncommon, and while Zoloft and Prozac are very helpful and useful drugs, they're not a cure-all, and they work very different on different people.

[bkilbour]

@ Nate - yep, that's kind of why I didn't want to use it as an absolute fact, but more as an aid to help understand what I was getting at. An implied simile, if you will.

[Yamamaya]

I'm amused by people who think virgins are "losers." First of all, if someone isn't seeking sex, then why do you call them a loser for not seeking it? That would be like calling someone an idiot because they don't play baseball.

On the other hand, seek and you will find. People who know the right places to look will be able to find "easy" casual sex as other users have mentioned.

The idea I get from the Bible is that although fornication is never specifically condemned, it is something to be avoided. David's lust in the end brought him a lot of grief(not to mention his concubines brought him a lot of dishonor when his rebel son Absalom decided to have sex with all of them in public). Israel however was a different society, men could have multiple wives and people could get married the instant they hit puberty.

*shrugs*

Jesus' statement on divorce may also have been a subtle attack at men since men were the only ones who were allowed to divorce. Once a woman was divorced, she had little to fall back on.

[Lilac#18]

I'm amused by people who think virgins are "losers." First of all, if someone isn't seeking sex, then why do you call them a loser for not seeking it? That would be like calling someone an idiot because they don't play baseball.

[color="Plum"]QFT. I mean Jordin Sparks was bash by nonfans and/or some of her fans for wanting to stay a virgin until she gets married. It's her choice if she wants to stay a virgin until she marrys. [/color][color="Plum"]


I found a quote someone had typed on hollyscoop.com[/color]

saving herself for after she's married is commendable, but realistically how will her wedding night be? she'll not know what pleases her or her new husband. she'll just be laying there, and then say either to herself, or outloud... "D*** THAT HURTS!!!" hopefully she's watched some porn to know what goes where.

[color="Plum"]That last sentence really offended me.[/color]