Flawed logic *rant*

[Vyse]

I've been hearing people say that buying used games is just as immoral is using roms because the company that made it is not making any money off of it, I totally disagree with that, if your buying a used game, you are buying a game that was orignally purchashed as new so the company that made it has ALREADY made money off of it, while as roms have been copies many many times. On top of that, even Nintendo reccomneds on their website to go to used game dealer to find their older legacy titles that are no longer being produced! So yeah... that was a pointless rant

[JediSonic]

Well just to be picky, nintendo is advertising buying used games that weren't being produced, so that they wouldn't be making any money off them anyway.

However, I agree... it is much worse to play a ROM or use a file-sharing software to get a hold of something than to buy it used. After all you arent making illegal copies. You are just sharing the one you've got.

[TheMelodyMaker]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was talking about the flawed logic in some games' programming. I would have said, "What are you ranting for? Flawed logic is sometimes a good thing; it gives you a legitimate excuse to cheat a little bit. "

Well, that's my take on it.

[Rashiir]

Seriously, if game developers don't want us to buy used games, they should make them good enough that people wouldn't want to sell them.

[Mithrandir]

Huh. I've never heard anyone say that, acutally. It's pretty obviously not illegal, but calling it immoral is (no offense to anyone who thinks this) sorta a stupid. Morallity has nothing to do with it. It's called delayed gratification. You don't get it when it first comes out, then the price goes down. Eventually, the price will go down to the point that you can afford it. But used games just skip a step. It is not a shrink-wrapped box, so it's not collectable. That's about all you are getting (if you buy it from someone who hasn't sent in the reg card or lost something). So to sum up, here's why it's cheaper:

1. It's not collectable.
2. You may not be able to collect on the warrenties.
3. Someone may have creased the pages in the instruction manual.

OK, that was a weird one...

[Lightbringer]

I buy used games quite a bit, it usually makes the price fair, instead of the stellar prices people ask for new (they might as well use a gun) anyway, i dontk now how anybody could think that its immoral to buy used. I think they just something to complain about.

Lightbringer // Aaron

[cbwing0]

I buy a lot of games (especially older titles for my Dreamcast ) used on Ebay, usually saving a considerable amount of money in the process. I agree that buying used games is not immoral, because the company has already made money from the product in question. If you can afford to buy the game new (or didn't have the opportunity, such as in the case of buying a console later in its life), then the company isn't losing money from used games. Game companies have also had ample opportunity to complain, yet major retaliers (Funcoland, EB Games, Gamestop, Software Etc.) continue do business in used games.

Roms are a different story. In addition to being illegal, they take potential sales away from the game company (although I suppose the term "potential sales" is problematic, since in most cases people who get roms would only get the game if they could have it for free). Buying pirated copies is even worse, because you are actually lending financial support to people who undermine the game industry.

To summarize: don't worry about buying used games, as there is nothing wrong with it.

[madphilb]

Nintendo has been known to call buying used games as piracy (I believe they've actually said as much in the past)....

I'm like alot of people, I buy most of my games as used, few new ones as the used ones are often just as good as the new ones and I save $5 or more on the cost (plus I buy from EB and have my Edge card so I get an additional 10% off the price).

[ShiroiHikari]

If buying used games is illegal, then the game shops wouldn't be allowed to sell them, ne? If you're going to argue about used games being illegal then the same should apply to CDs and DVDs too. Whatever...

[Fsiphskilm]

That would mea

[Mithrandir]

MPB - Can you give us examples of where Nintendo did that? I'm really curious about that one!

And yeah, what volt said. It's in the EULA on a lot of stuff. But if it's a cartridge game, you don't always get one of those...

[Bobtheduck]

I've been hearing people say that buying used games is just as immoral is using roms because the company that made it is not making any money off of it, I totally disagree with that, if your buying a used game, you are buying a game that was orignally purchashed as new so the company that made it has ALREADY made money off of it, while as roms have been copies many many times. On top of that, even Nintendo reccomneds on their website to go to used game dealer to find their older legacy titles that are no longer being produced! So yeah... that was a pointless rant

I had heard that Japan made buying used games illegal, but that really makes no sense because they have MASSIVE used games stores in Japan that put Funcoland and EBgames to shame.

[Vyse]

I had heard that Japan made buying used games illegal, but that really makes no sense because they have MASSIVE used games stores in Japan that put Funcoland and EBgames to shame.

Yeah... I heard about that too, but from my understanding its MUCH eaiser to obtain copies of older games there.

[madphilb]

MPB - Can you give us examples of where Nintendo did that? I'm really curious about that one!

What? You're asking me to back up something I've said....

oh, very well.... let me see if I can find the quote....

I have a nasty feeling at this point I'm going to find I'm wrong yet again. sigh

edit: the Acts of Gord site might be where I've seen the referece.... part of a conversation he listed on one of his pages:

The Law Firm of Nintendo

"What's that?"

"That's Tobal #2. It's from Japan."

"That's illegal!"

"What?"

"It's illegal to import stuff from Japan!"

"Oh really?"

"Nintendo Power said that it's called 'the grey market' and it's illegal.

"You're taking your legal advice from Nintendo, a company that also says that renting games is illegal and that selling used games is piracy?"

"You're going to get into trouble."

"Because I bought a game from Japan?"

"Yes. That's illegal."

"Stay in school. And invest in a law book before you become a free lawyer dolling out legal advice from the book of Nintendo."

So, this might be where I'm remembering this from... might see if I can find an exact quote from Nintendo Power to back this up (that or contact The Gord and see if he can establish some backing to his own quote).

[Rashiir]

If buying used games is illegal, then the game shops wouldn't be allowed to sell them, ne? If you're going to argue about used games being illegal then the same should apply to CDs and DVDs too. Whatever...

The companies aren't saying it's illegal... they're saying it's immoral and trying to make it illegal... And believe me, the RIAA would love to have the selling of used CDs be made illegal... Fortunately, the supreme court has upheld the "First Sale" Doctrine...

[ShiroiHikari]

Well, I was talking more about people saying it's illegal, not really the companies.

I still don't get why they'd think it's immoral though...they already got their stinking money for the product...and think how much business some places would lose if they couldn't sell used stuff anymore...

[madphilb]

Actually, in my search I found a news blurb on a website that talked about a law that was overturned in Japan that actually did make selling pre-owned copies illegal (according to the blurb they had resorted to re-wrapping the used games and selling them as new with the law in place).

Sadly there where no sources listed for the blurb.

The topic of the ethical considerations did pop up in a few forums and whatnot about the issue, much as we've discussed here.... but nothing more to give any more substance to my claim.

I did however e-mail the AoG website and asked if they knew where I could find more solid informatin.