New Narnia Movie

[USSRGirl]

Anyway, it hit me tonight at work why A Horse and His Boy will probably not be made anyway. If that movie got made there would be an ENORMOUS backlash from Middle-Eastern groups raising noise about racism. And well, to be honest, unlike all the "anti-woman" crap Lewis gets blamed for, there actually IS something to the claims about this book. :\ So unless they like completely changed everything about the Calormenians I can't see that movie getting made.

That JUST hit you? XD Hollywood's been P.C.ing movies for years to make sure they cut out all the stuff that might offend anyone like bumbling Tisrochs and fill it up with abominably amoral crap that doesn't offend nearly so much. XP

I do not believe there's any validity in the racial stereotyping claim given the time period and the culture from which Lewis is writing from. The Middle East and India (as you can see in Lewis' Boxen works) were viewed as exotic, mysterious almost fantasy-like palaces along the lines of Arabian Nights. Hence the culture was exagerrated as were the villains (though let's not forget Aravis and Emeth... >.> *coughcough*) to a highly mythical extent. I believe Lewis' only real endeavor with the Calormenes was to create what was at the time a unique, slightly wild/barbaric/exotic/pagan culture from which to draw a distinction between the Narnians.

The White Witch, incidentally, was also rather obviously based on Nazi aryan models but I don't see any Germans throwing schnitzel at the screen...

Case in point: Society is more touchy/politically correct over certain areas than it was in Lewis' day - so much so that you can't enjoy a good movie without getting tagged by the P.C. police. I for one would be disappointed if Last Battle wasn't adapted faithfully.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

The White Witch had no connection to Nazi at all. C.S. Lewis was inspired by The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson.

[Fish and Chips]

I love it when critics try to weasel in the meanings behind authors' writings that were never there. Dramatic symbolism, nah it just sounded cool.

I do not think I have a favorite Narnia book, I enjoyed them all on the same level.

[Scarecrow]

The movie only did 50 mil its opening, and movies always go downhill after their first week (with very few exceptions, sleeper hits like Napoleon Dynamite)

Unless something drastic happens, and this film makes back the other 50 or so million, there won't be any more new narnia movies... This will be worse than the BBC stuff, ending at Silver Chair. It will end here... Man... Many people say it's because Disney released it at the wrong time.

Actually, I believe Caspian did 20% better than LWW in all other regions it opened aside from the US. Right now PC should easily get 600mil world wide. Voyage is already in production and PC didn't do bad enough for them to throw it out.

But I think Disney will DEFINITELY re-think its marketing strategy next time. Voyage will be the make or breaker I think. If does as well/better than the LWW they'll make more. IF it does worse than PC there wont be anymore

[uc pseudonym]

Now that I've seen the film, I'll add my thoughts to this thread. As before, I was struck mostly by my disappointment with the original novel, but in this case I also thought the additions/changes were poor choices.

I think adding the castle battle was a good choice that provides more balance to the film (preventing it from being all just one battle and fairly simple). However, I didn't like most other dynamics of the scene. Peter is about 29 years old, mentally, and you'd think he would be a bit more mature. Though it was underplayed, the centaur who turns back from the gate was a good touch. I realize they're representative of the Stoics, but still, to say goodbye to your son like that is a major thing.

Of the new characters, Trumpkin was the only one I liked. So world-weary and cynical. Reepicheep and Caspian were both competently written, but they didn't really stand out to me.

My thoughts on the ending song: Adamson, what is wrong with you? I don't care if it's Gabriel and the Heavenly Hosts, putting lyrics at that stage is a terrible decision as far as I'm concerned.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I do not believe there's any validity in the racial stereotyping claim given the time period and the culture from which Lewis is writing from. The Middle East and India (as you can see in Lewis' Boxen works) were viewed as exotic, mysterious almost fantasy-like palaces along the lines of Arabian Nights. Hence the culture was exagerrated as were the villains (though let's not forget Aravis and Emeth... >.> *coughcough*) to a highly mythical extent. I believe Lewis' only real endeavor with the Calormenes was to create what was at the time a unique, slightly wild/barbaric/exotic/pagan culture from which to draw a distinction between the Narnians.

Since when, if ever, have we stopped to consider things like the context, time, and culture of remarks when we were vanillifying things with political correctness?

[Nate]

I do not believe there's any validity in the racial stereotyping claim given the time period and the culture from which Lewis is writing from.

I don't know if I agree with your sentiments that time period has anything to do with whether something is racist. People could then make the claim that "blackface" and the negative portrayal of blacks in the early part of the 1900s could just be attributed to the time period. Sorry, still doesn't stop it from being racist.

But, this is a thread about Prince Caspian, so let's not continue this line of talking. XD

[USSRGirl]

The White Witch had no connection to Nazi at all. C.S. Lewis was inspired by The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson.

Yeah, the Snow Queen and also Nazi Germany as did many aspects of the book. Lewis stated this in one of his biographies I believe, but I'd have to dig it up to find the exact quote. It's pretty obvious though given that the kids are war time refugees, Maugrim's original name was "Fenris Ulf," Jadis commands an army of secret police who act very much like the Gustapo, and her overall description of deadly, frosty beauty seems to be symbolic in a sense.

People could then make the claim that "blackface" and the negative portrayal of blacks in the early part of the 1900s could just be attributed to the time period. Sorry, still doesn't stop it from being racist.

But that's not at all what I was saying - Lewis' perceptions of the Middle East did not stem from racism, they came more from curiosity/mythology towards the Middle East. The Calormenes aren't jokes either, though their characters like all his other villains are exagerrated for the sake of it being a children's book. Where "blackface" is coming from a society with known predjudice towards a certain race, the Calormenes were at best an un-researched (but then again I'd point out that Narnia are children's books and none of the villains attempted realism) observation of what Lewis thought was a little known, interesting culture at the time. Plus, I never really saw them as being controversial to begin with even in today's circumstances. :\ Nothing about them struck me as rascist until the P.C. police jumped on it.

But I digress... so I'll just end by attempting to get back on topic and saying Reepicheep kicked butt.

[Nate]

Reepicheep kicked butt.

Now there's something we can all agree on!

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Maugrim's original name was Maugrim. It was changed for American audiences to Fenris Ulf (which makes sense but sucks).
But even America reverted back to the British editions after awhile.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm curious about Reepicheep in this movie because apparently he's voiced by Eddie Izzard. Is that right?

[Raiden no Kishi]

I'm curious about Reepicheep in this movie because apparently he's voiced by Eddie Izzard. Is that right?

Yes, that is true, and it is awesome. They got the character (one of my favorites) down perfectly.

.rai//

[Monkey J. Luffy]

My thoughts on the ending song: Adamson, what is wrong with you? I don't care if it's Gabriel and the Heavenly Hosts, putting lyrics at that stage is a terrible decision as far as I'm concerned.

AMEN I was just thinking of that.
Overall I thought this movie was average at nest, I probably would have a better opinion if T Leah didn't point out EVERY freakin' thing that they did horribly. I thought the action was quite good, but the acting wasn't anything to write home about and whoever made the script needs to be taken and shoved into a dryer on spin cycle for a few hours.
"I am PRINCE Caspian!"
"For Aslan!"
"CHAAAAAAAGE!"
"GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
"I put my trust in your hands!" "or HOOVES" HEE HEE HOOHOO HAHA:lol:wait no. NOt even the third graders in the theater laughed at that!
and every single GAA! YAAH! and GRR!
What were they thinking!!! It sounded like some dude watched Dragonball Z and thoughtHeck I Should put stuff like this in to PC Yes GREAT Idea! wait, no...
Stuff like that really ruined the experioence that could have been SO much better. Thank God we don't have to see Peter, Susan, or that Fabio-Wanna-Be Caspian AGAIN!
And please don't get me started on EVERYTHING they took from other movies. Go Watch Pirates, LOTR, Star Wars, and the Mummy returns and you have basically everything that was in the movie, but not the book.
FINAL SCORE: 6.5/10 (Thank GOD for Reepacheep, and the best line "did you kill my father?")

[Kawaiikneko]

I actually REALLY enjoyed the movie, surprising because I was very critical of the first movie. Overall I think the acting and the fighting choreography improved a lot. I purposely did not read the book before I went to see the movie, because the book being fresh in my mind would guarantee me hating it. XD However, I grew up on the books.. and Prince Caspian was also probably my least favorite book as a child, and one of my favorites allegory-wise now that I understand it. That being said, I LOOOVEEDD the symbolism in the movie, even if it doesn't measure straight to the book exactly. I was especially pleased with the characterization of Peter. The whole "I can do it on my own" thing parallels so much with my Christian walk sometimes and so it was neat to draw that parallel. I also loved the scene with the witch (although it isn't in the book), because it served to wrap up that characterization. It was very poignant when the witch's offer for help disappeared to reveal the true help portrayed in a picture behind her (Aslan). So, yes, I liked that.

I disliked the Caspian/Susan romance. I'm sorry... It just seemed so out of context in the extreme situation they were in. If there were some alternate universe in which the Pevensies stayed in Narnia, maybe I could see them together. But in the midst of all the conflict I thought it was a bit ridiculous and blatantly Hollywoodized, not realistic. The whole of Susan's character seems to me to go against it anyways, since she's so practical. If anything, I think it would make more sense to put in a Lucy/Caspian romance in the Dawn Treader, but... too late now I suppose.

It's too bad that Dawn Treader is the make or break movie. It was my favorite book when I was little. I read it at least once a month and my copy is falling apart... that pretty much means I'll hate the movie. XD; But, when I think back to that book, it doesn't strike me as a storyline that would turn into a movie well. I'll have to read it again and see, but I remember it being almost episodic, and that doesn't always work well in movie form.

Well, that's my two cents. I could probably go on about Prince Caspian because I loved it, but that's all.

[Monkey J. Luffy]

Touche! (Not really it just sounded like you were trying to prove me wrong, which is fine by me, because I sometimes can be wrong) I agree that the part with peter and the part with the which was really neat, and I actually didn't notice that until you mentioned it. Since I was in the theater with a bunch of other high schoolers it's really hard to take something like Narnia seriously, trust me everyone in my school does not understand an allegory or any symbolism whatsoever, and would rather make fun of it the entire time, which I admit I did take part, but it WAS TeeLeah that caused me to notice all the stupid BAD humor, blame him!!! In all honesty I sort of wished that I didn't see that movie with my friends. I still hated the acting though, I'm sorry, I just can't take any charecter seriously! Especially CASPIAN, why did he have to be some Fabio wanna-be! WHY!!!

[Nate]

trust me everyone in my school does not understand an allegory or any symbolism whatsoever

Well at least they lucked out since the Narnia series has no allegory whatsoever in it.

[USSRGirl]

Uh................................ >.>;;

Okay.

[Nate]

Well if you say that they have allegory, then you're disagreeing with the man who wrote them. I think we should listen to the guy who wrote the stories, since if they were meant to be allegorical, he would have said they were, instead of saying:

“If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, ‘What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia, and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?’ This is not allegory at all”

Are there Christian parallels? Yes. Parallels are not the same as allegory.

Me? I'll believe the guy who actually, y'know, WROTE the books, as opposed to pseudo-intellectuals who feel the need to insert references to Christianity into everything ("You know, the Christian walk is a lot like baking a cake!")

[USSRGirl]

Oh right. Still, I believe that's what Luffy meant. XD Direct allegory would be more like Pilgrim's Regress where Narnia is just symbolism and every character is not meant to have a direct meaning/person in mind.

[Nate]

The eating of an orange is like a successful Christian walk.

In all seriousness though I think this is caused by people misunderstanding what the word "allegory" means. *shrug*

[Raiden no Kishi]

I'd say that's the primary issue in communications breakdowns. People tend to agree on a lot more than they think, but they don't get that across properly.

On a random note, this line would have ruined the movie, but would have been absolutely hilarious: "My name is Prince Caspian. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

.rai//

[Tommy]

I believe The Chronicles of Narnia series is allegorical, in a sense.
We discussed this in English class, Monkey J. Luffy and I but for the moment, I will use this post to share my feelings for the movie.

I didn't like it that much.
I wasn't expecting anything good from this at all so therefore I wasn't disapointed.
Reepicheep was cool though unlike in the BBC adaption.

And Yes Josh, it is my duty to point out the flaw of every movie as we watch it.
I even did that for Iron Man.

"My name is Inri-I mean..um...Prince Caspian. You killed my Father. Prepare to Die."

EDIT: RAIDEN!!!!!!! I haven't screamed Raiden in anger that loud since I first played Metal Gear Solid 2 to discover he replaced Snake. =/
Way to steal my post idea.

It was filled with terrible jokes, decent action, awesome special effects, decent plot, low quality acting.

Well, hey, at least it beat the BBC version.
And Edmund ISN'T a ginger! =D

[Yeshua-Knight]

the reason why they come off as allegorical is because it is, in essence, an exposition on the nature of Christ. in a way it's saying "what if Jesus was in this situation? how would he handle things?" and taking it from there. it comes of as allegorical because the nature of Christ does not change, regardless of circumstance.

[Bobtheduck]

But that's not at all what I was saying - Lewis' perceptions of the Middle East did not stem from racism, they came more from curiosity/mythology towards the Middle East. The Calormenes aren't jokes either, though their characters like all his other villains are exagerrated for the sake of it being a children's book. Where "blackface" is coming from a society with known predjudice towards a certain race, the Calormenes were at best an un-researched (but then again I'd point out that Narnia are children's books and none of the villains attempted realism) observation of what Lewis thought was a little known, interesting culture at the time. Plus, I never really saw them as being controversial to begin with even in today's circumstances. :\ Nothing about them struck me as rascist until the P.C. police jumped on it.

I agree... I just got done re-reading the introduction of the Calormenes in Voyage today... I'm doing it after hearing the complaints of "racism" in the books, and I have to say, while it's obvious they're referring to people of middle eastern decent, they're not charicatures... In fact, the description of the calormenes as "Wise and Courteous and cruel and..." (something I can't remember) could almost be compared to his description of Aslan.

If you think there's any degree of support for white supremacy in CS Lewis' books, you haven't really read them through. The human villain in the Space Trilogy, for instance, is a white supremacist (as well as an arrogant scientist, which is much more prominent than the glancing mention of his racist views) and, indeed, the whole issue of the various animals and mythological beings able to work with or against Aslan sort of counters the idea it's a supremacy thing. The beavers at one point say the closer something is to being human without being human, the more likely it is to be evil, but many of the dwarves of which they were referring eventually join Aslan's side. You could say there is racism present among good creatures in the series as well, but that it is misplaced even the confines of the story.

In any case, I'm eager to see it. Can't wait.

[Radical Dreamer]

So I went to see it today.

Basically, I payed $7.50 to hear Regina Spektor's song. XD

[SPOILER]I thought the movie was mediocre. Why?

The first hour moved so slowly that I thought I might die of boredom. There were a number of scenes that could have been taken out, condensed, etc. The pacing really could've been a lot better. XD

The characterization failed on so many levels. Caspian was totally flat, along with most of the other characters in the movie. The villains (I forget their race's name) were given practically no development at all, and when it came time for some of them to die, I felt like I was going through Pirates 3 all over again. "Hey look at this cool scene where this guy dies--wait, who was he again and why should I care?" I kind of just felt like the movie lacked any real substance, and it didn't start to get really good until Aslan showed up. Also, I was disappointed that the Pevensie children got no real development in this movie. It felt like they were the same as last time, only this time I wanted to slap Peter instead of Edmund. XD

And while I do understand that this movie was probably more geared towards a younger crowd, I doubt it would kill someone to show blood on a sword after somebody gets stabbed. XD I mean really, come on. XD

I also wasn't a fan of the comic relief in the film, though that might just be my sense of humor. All of my friends that I went with cracked up throughout parts of the movie that were meant to be funny, while I found myself barely cracking a smile. XD; I guess that's just me, but I wasn't a fan of the comedic relief. XD

Also, Susan and Caspian having a relationship all of the sudden was ridiculous. XD Seriously, all they do for most of the movie is look at each other bashfully, say about 10 words, and then they're kissing at the end? Did they ever even have a conversation? XD So yeah, that part didn't really fly with me. XD

I won't say the movie was completely bad, though. I liked most of the action scenes (even if Edmund jumping to the Griffin DID look like a total Orthanc rip-off XD), and I know it must have taken the studio months and months of work to animate the water scene at the end. That was pretty cool, as was the scene where they knocked out the supports under the ground to cause the ground to collapse under the feet of the enemy. I also thought that Reepicheep definitely had potential to be an awesome character, but he seemed to fall flat in the movie. I'm hoping he's a more fleshed-out character in the book (since I haven't read it yet XD).

And while I would generally say that lyrics at the end of a movie like that are kind of out of place, I didn't mind it so much. XD But I think that's mostly because I'm a fan of Regina Spektor, so...your mileage may vary. XD[/SPOILER]

And those are my thoughts. XD Mostly negative, but again, I didn't hate it. I just thought it could have been a LOT better than it was, though I doubt I'll see it again.

[Scarecrow]

I also thought that Reepicheep definitely had potential to be an awesome character, but he seemed to fall flat in the movie. I'm hoping he's a more fleshed-out character in the book (since I haven't read it yet XD).

Well I haven't seen the movie but he's awesome in Voyage of the Dawn Treader . I honestly can't remember much of Reepicheep in PC... probably because I really don't remember much of PC period... just that it was the worst book in the series and quite boring.

I DO wanna see this still... looks pretty cool and I am a HUGE fan of the books (Don't care much for the movies so far)

[Tommy]

I found Voyage far more of a boring read than PC.
That's just me though.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Reepicheep is in the PC novel but he's a very minor character. It's only in VotDT that he comes into his own and becomes great.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I have to say I did not care for this film as much as I did The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. For the first time ever I found swordplay boring! And I couldn't help making comparisons to LOTR in terms of background and certain battle scenes. I was really looking forward to PC, but it did not live up to my expectations.

[Aileen Kailum]

I actually liked Prince Caspian--despite the strange accents and one joke that fell so flat it broke bones. Of course, I had a good idea of how the movie had been altered before I saw it, so there weren't too many expectations to crush.

Two things won me over. The scene with the werewolf and the witch, and the trees. I really, really wanted to see the werewolf scene acted out. The addition of the White Witch made it all the more interesting.
And then there were the trees. One of my complaints about that last movie was that the tree spirits were just floating leaves and petals. This movie made me a happy camper.