The golden compass

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I get why Pullman is so anti-Christian, but why so pro-sex?

Cause Pullman is a hedonistic tardface.

[Kuro-Mizu]

[quote="Nate"]You'll forgive me if I think they're lying or idiots, as the last book makes it very clear that it's anti-Christian.

“The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty—those were all names he gave himself.â€

[Sheenar]

This is copied from the university paper:

"Censoring 'The Golden Compass': Ashes to Ashes, Dust to
Bryan Honeycutt
Issue date: 12/4/07 Section: Opinion

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Bill Donahue is calling for a boycott of the upcoming movie, "The Golden Compass," a recent adaptation of Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy.

The expressed concern is "The Golden Compass" being used as a lure to "hook parents into thinking the books by Pullman are okay and get it for their kids this Christmas." This marketing is thought problematic because fundamentalists object to its atheistic theme and characters' attempt to "kill God."

Personally, I can't wait to see the movie. Philip Pullman, and these books specifically, are some of the reasons I want to be a writer.

Consequently, when I heard people are boycotting this movie, I became very distressed. Most of the hatred towards this movie comes from either a misunderstanding of the novels, or a failure to read them in the first place. The characters do not seek to kill God. The characters seek to kill a false god; one that is in no way like or equivalent to the Christian God.

The other assumption, that the novels attack Christianity, is also misled. "His Dark Materials" is not a declaration against theism; it is a literary work like "1984", "Brave New World" or "V for Vendetta," speaking against corrupt and subversive governments.

If you want to boycott the movie because the books speak against injustice, then tear down the "95 Theses," burn the "Declaration of Independence" and lock Martin Luther King Jr. in jail with Ghandi.

My generation is one clinging to the safety blanket of conformity. We have sought a world without gray areas and ambiguity. We want to google all of life's questions for an answer without an ounce of the hard research to seek them ourselves. "Is this wrong?" Yes. "Is that right?" Yes. "What should I do with my life?" Go to college. We sacrifice our revolutionaries like Jesus, Martin Luther and Thoreau for a frictionless lifestyle.

Modern artistic expression in film, television and literature, doesn't challenge our beliefs enough. A world without doubt or alternative is a world without choice. A genuine, truth-seeking body (as most churches would claim to be) shouldn't sustain itself on the absence of options.

The pop-genres we ingest regularly don't challenge what we believe. We have begged for simple, black and white messages and they are fed to us. When is the last time you saw a movie, or heard a song and were truly inspired? When is the last time you read a book and wanted to change the world for yourself? This world is not so terrible. Neither is it perfect, and until it is, we should not slip into the comfort of stagnation.

If you hate movies with Nicole Kidman, talking bears or English accents, then don't see the movie. If you feel "The Golden Compass," or any movie for that matter, will challenge your beliefs, then it is imperative you see it. Beliefs that are not contested to hold true, are not beliefs worth holding."

[Sheenar]

I'm not sure what to think though.

[Alexander]

I'm not sure what to think though.

I have to agree and disagree with it.

I will agree that our current culture is very conformist and there's a lack of individualism, but at that same time, this doesn't, and shouldn't, affect me or anyone else.

I love Anime, and I've made more then a few people have giant question marks over their heads over why I like it. And for a time I had to debate with my mom that what I liked wasn't some strange cult thing but instead just a form of animation I liked. Yes, there were plenty of bad series, but that didn't mean all Anime was bad.

Now, there's plenty of stuff out there I avoid for the content in the story. The reason I avoid blood in a film or video game is because the sight of blood makes me very, very queezy. The reason I don't like, but can tolerate some swearing is based upon my personal feelings and moral beliefs, ect.

When it comes to The Golden Compass, I'm not acting like the over protective parent who's going to see five seconds of Pokemon on television and scream to my children and everyone else in my church group that it has demons in it and create a boycott against it. I'd watch the show with my children if I was concerned and make my judgment from watching a few episodes. And if I really wanted to make a full evaluation of His Dark Materials, I would go and read the books first hand.

The reason I choose to avoid these materials however, is just simply, the author intended the material in book three to be anti-Christian. Am I going against the Declaration of Independence or what Martin Luther King Jr. said? No. The reason I'm not reading these books is because the writer intended to degrade what I, as in me personally, choose to believe in. If any other parent or person wants to see the film or read the books, I would give a word of caution, but not wave a picket sign reading "DO NOT READ THESE BOOKS EVER".

The point is, it all end with what you believe in and what content you can handle. Not for a group or organization, but just what you believe in.

[Nate]

I think the guy who wrote that article is an idiot.

Most of the hatred towards this movie comes from either a misunderstanding of the novels, or a failure to read them in the first place. The characters do not seek to kill God. The characters seek to kill a false god; one that is in no way like or equivalent to the Christian God.

Obviously THIS guy misunderstood the novels or failed to read them. The characters DO seek to kill God, and to try and pass it off as "Oh it's a fake God" is missing the point of what Pullman wrote. He wrote the books SPECIFICALLY to have the characters kill the Christian God. The books could not have been any more clear on this.

The other assumption, that the novels attack Christianity, is also misled. "His Dark Materials" is not a declaration against theism; it is a literary work like "1984", "Brave New World" or "V for Vendetta," speaking against corrupt and subversive governments.

Again, completely wrong. The Magesterium or whatever the bloody heck it's called is the Church. In fact it's specifically called "the Church" throughout the books from what I understand. You can't say "when he says Church he actually means government" without sounding like a moron.

If you want to boycott the movie because the books speak against injustice, then tear down the "95 Theses," burn the "Declaration of Independence" and lock Martin Luther King Jr. in jail with Ghandi.

LOL WUT?

The difference is the 95 Theses, Declaration of Independence, and Dr. King did not say "Religion is evil and the church is bad and God is an invention!" These books DO.

If that wasn't enough, the author himself has said atheism is awesome, the God in the books is the Christian God, my books have always been to spread atheism. When the guy who WRITES THE BOOKS says this, you can't just dismiss it as not valid.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

The other assumption, that the novels attack Christianity, is also misled. "His Dark Materials" is not a declaration against theism; it is a literary work like "1984", "Brave New World" or "V for Vendetta," speaking against corrupt and subversive governments.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This guy is comparing a fantasy story with dystopian literature?

More like NOT. I highly doubt Pullman's works are even be as remotely as good as the three titles that he mentioned.

[uc pseudonym]

Nate has already expressed my main point: the article writer is wrong. Pullman has always been explicit about the purpose of his trilogy.

I think I'd like to contest one of the minor points as well. Yes, much of pop culture fails to challenge or mentally engage, and yes, an unquestioned faith is of questionable value. But is His Dark Materials really a significant challenge to faith? Not as far as I am concerned. It is a fantasy story first and Pullman did not allow it to be bogged down in arguments. Consequently it doesn't really say anything that could challenge anyone's faith, it just presents a world that may resonate with some readers (or appeal to uncritical hormone-driven teenagers).

Also, I'd like to point out that minor copy-paste errors are kind of funny:

"Censoring 'The Golden Compass': Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Bryan Honeycutt

[rocklobster]

I don't think we should censor these books. That would make us hypocrites. Just thought I should point that out.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

You even hated book 1?
I love book 1 and book 2 is pretty good, but I hate book 3.

[Sheenar]

In reference to the article I quoted, remember that our particular university publication is well-known for poor quality of journalism (I like to read the paper and make fun of their bad grammar and spelling! ). So this article is on par with the usual for our paper...(if they'd only proofread, they just MIGHT be credible...)

Anyway, I'm still not sure what to think. My friend Debbie told me she read the books and they're not like that and that the author (what's-his-name) stated in a television interview that the books were not anti-Christian.
I'm not saying anyone's lying. I'm just confused because I keep hearing different things...
I don't plan on watching/reading though. Doesn't seem that interesting...I already have a long list of books I'm wanting to read. (Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper is one and Animals in Translation is another.)

[bakura_fan]

To me...I really am upset abotu the agenda in this. Because the more I read about the fantasy aspect the more I liked it. I especially like the idea of the animal spirits...but then I'm also a sucker for talking animals...and...now I feel bad for liking that stuff...cause I know that this movie isn't right for me to see or get into...I've been tempted before by this stuff (as in I know it's against Christianity but do/read/watch it anyway). So...yeah. It just hurts cause I can't trust myself. *sigh*

[Etoh*the*Greato]

(or appeal to uncritical hormone-driven teenagers)

Eva Green makes me happy...

[CephasWhite]

"Who so shall offend one of these little ones which believed in me, it were better for him that millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Luke 17:2

What Pullman is doing is foolish. Basically directing kids to atheism...he's not going on Yihoshua's nice list.

This is all I'm going to say about him: He's a jerk. A full fledged jerk. How about if I make a film that totally kills Darwinism and I kill Charles Darwin and every single person who believes in him will be killed and my reason for this is "because I just can't see it, I don't respect it, so no one else should! NYAH!"

We need C.S. Lewis' Narnia to prosper, and we pray that it will, better then the "brass" compass, or any other books in his foolish series.

We also need a Christian anime, one that tells the truth about everything we as Christians have to deal with everyday.

[Nate]

How about if I make a film that totally kills Darwinism and I kill Charles Darwin and every single person who believes in him will be killed and my reason for this is "because I just can't see it, I don't respect it, so no one else should! NYAH!"

It'll be kind of hard to kill Charles Darwin seeing as how he's already dead. Also, since there are photographs of him, books written by him, and other evidence that he existed, pretty much everyone believes in Charles Darwin, so you'd basically be killing everyone in the world. Except people in third world countries who don't know who Charles Darwin is.

We also need a Christian anime, one that tells the truth about everything we as Christians have to deal with everyday.

You realize the chances of a Christian anime are nil because 1) less than 2% of Japan is Christian, and 2) even if a Christian Japanese person were to decide to make an anime about it, the challenges a Christian faces in Japan are quite different than the challenges a Christian faces in America. We wouldn't be able to exactly relate to it.

Also since most of the secular world thinks anime is gay anyway, it really would have almost no impact on them, and since most Christians think all anime is porno cartoons, it would have almost no impact on them. Really, it would only appeal to people on CAA, and that'd basically be preaching to the choir.

[minakichan]

Superbook! =D

I think a Christian anime is definitely possible, although not necessarily probable. There are plenty of anime that do not have Japanese cultural elements in them at all, and some are adaptations of Western literature or whatever. Why not the Bible, or at least with a Christian concept? There are some anime that portray Christian characters positively, and no one gets offended or anything (thought they are usually nice, kind, tolerate old priests).

[CAAOutkast]

Liberal Atheism is a major problem in America. Because of thier stupid idiology and fairy tale theories,STD's are on the rise{thanks to their corrupt way of teaching about sex as well as the porno industry},the porno industry is growing,perversion is becoming exceptible,drug use is rising,more Gangs are forming,more criminals are being made,many of our youth{too many if ya ask me}are being brainwashed at collage campuses,most of our modernday entertainment is screwed,and christians are being persecuted day in and day out. And the Worst part of this mess is that We are letting them have their way. C'mon people stand up for truth and justice. Take a stand against Liberal Atheism, It's what Christ yould want. I think the world would be much better place. if Athiestic Progressives didn't exist.

Anyway,Instead of Boycotting these types of movies,we Have to counter them...It's the only smart thing to do

BTW, From what I understand,almost all of the Anti-Christian bigotry that was in his book,won't be in the movie. This news caused Pullman and the Atheistic Left to go in a total uproar. God.I Love It:)

[Shao Feng-Li]

That's cool. If the movie was so plainly anti-God, it probably wouldn't do as well XD

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I would just like to remind everyone of what happened when the Christian community flipped out about the Da Vinci code: It made billions in book and movie sales. Be careful about your boycott. Who knows, if we ignore it maybe it'll turn in to Eragon?

[Nate]

I think a Christian anime is definitely possible, although not necessarily probable. There are plenty of anime that do not have Japanese cultural elements in them at all, and some are adaptations of Western literature or whatever. Why not the Bible, or at least with a Christian concept? There are some anime that portray Christian characters positively, and no one gets offended or anything (thought they are usually nice, kind, tolerate old priests).

I realize there's stuff like Superbook and whatnot. I realize there are currently anime and manga based on the Bible, just as there are TV shows, comics, about the Greek gods and whatnot. Obviously the Bible as a literary work will be turned into all sorts of media.

This however is not what Cephas was suggesting. He was suggesting an anime about a person in modern times, in real life, living as a Christian. This will pretty much never happen in Japan, for the reasons I stated.

[CephasWhite]

I realize there's stuff like Superbook and whatnot. I realize there are currently anime and manga based on the Bible, just as there are TV shows, comics, about the Greek gods and whatnot. Obviously the Bible as a literary work will be turned into all sorts of media.

This however is not what Cephas was suggesting. He was suggesting an anime about a person in modern times, in real life, living as a Christian. This will pretty much never happen in Japan, for the reasons I stated.

Well...that...or more of a Christian Anime mixed with Fantasy and Horror.

[termyt]

When someone says "you shouldn't be offended" doesn't mean you shouldn't be offended. If anything, you should be the decided of what offends you. If the writer of that article does not believe the books are talking about that Christian God, then he has a right to that opinion, although I would say his knowledge of the Christian God appears to be quite limited if that is the case.

On a side note, I do not believe anything in this discussion leads to censorship.

Pullman has the right to say and write whatever he likes.

Publishers have the right to refuse or to print what Pullman writes.

Stores have the right to sell/refuse to sell the book.

But we, as the end consumers have the right to buy/not buy and encourage others to do the same.

The only place in this whole area where I would get offended is when someone attempts to force any of the above parties to do one thing or the other buy threatening the livelihood (or the lives) of those involved. The only determining factor on whether someone should continued to be published should be on book sales. If you like/don’t like the book, buy/don’t buy it and, if you feel strongly enough, encourage others to do the same. Threatening publishers or retailers with boycotts because the refuse to act according you your point of view, to me, violates the spirit of Freedom of Speech.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Huh... I don't care to see it now anyways...

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/his_dark_materials_the_golden_compass/

[uc pseudonym]

I was thinking along similar lines:
http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/goldencompass

What can't be easily determined is if these aggregate reviews include some anti-atheism bias (one would hope metacritic would use sources that would concentrate on quality). I've read a few negative reviews who also opening mocked Christian concerns, so perhaps the rating is mostly valid.

[CephasWhite]

I have lost all respect for Royal Canadian Air Farce now. I just knew this was going to happen:

I just saw an episode of RCAF Live and OF COURSE, they just HAD to make fun of our faith with the controversy of the brass compass.

Jessica Holmes is playing (more like mocking) a woman in line for the brass compass. The attendant at the theater described the film, stating what it's about in a full synopsis, and in the middle of her talking, Holmes butts in saying line like:

"GOD SAVE US!"

Finally the attendant says if she wants to say something and Holmes continues while shoving people out of line and dropping popcorn out of a person's arms:

"This man is promoting the wrong message! We should boycott this film!"

"This man is taking our kids towards atheism...and homosexuality" saying this in more of a extremist way.

The attendant says: "What about Ian McKellen?"

Holmes replies, "Oh, I liked him as Gandalf".

Attendant: "He is gay, you know?"

Holmes: "I DO NOT RESPECT HIM AS GANDALF!!"


My Dad changed the channel...I just said,

"I knew it..." *shakes head*

Welp, that's the last I watch Royal Canadian Air Farce. It used to be funny...until they started slamming Christians and our beliefs...now they're just plain jerks.

[Cognitive Gear]

I haven't read the entire thread, but the bit that I have read seems to indicate that most people are planning on voiding the film entirely, due to it's anti-christian themes and criticism of organized religion.

Honestly, that is exactly the reason that I will be watching this movie and reading these books. As I see it, I should be ready and prepared to defend my beliefs. By watching and reading things that take a stand against my beliefs, it gives me a chance to think about the point brought up critically. I find that more often than not, the criticism has some truth in it, which in turn drives me to address whatever truth is contained therein.

Not something everyone enjoys, but it is certainly something that I enjoy doing.

Welp, that's the last I watch Royal Canadian Air Farce. It used to be funny...until they started slamming Christians and our beliefs...now they're just plain jerks.

I can't help but to comment on this. The Royal Canadian Air Farce makes it's living on making fun of everything. It sounds like you watched it quite a lot, but as soon as they slam you, they are jerks?

[CephasWhite]

I haven't read the entire thread, but the bit that I have read seems to indicate that most people are planning on voiding the film entirely, due to it's anti-christian themes and criticism of organized religion.

Honestly, that is exactly the reason that I will be watching this movie and reading these books. As I see it, I should be ready and prepared to defend my beliefs. By watching and reading things that take a stand against my beliefs, it gives me a chance to think about the point brought up critically. I find that more often than not, the criticism has some truth in it, which in turn drives me to address whatever truth is contained therein.

Not something everyone enjoys, but it is certainly something that I enjoy doing.



I can't help but to comment on this. The Royal Canadian Air Farce makes it's living on making fun of everything. It sounds like you watched it quite a lot, but as soon as they slam you, they are jerks?

Regarding your first comment Cognitive:

That's true, it's good to strengthen our beliefs and have a better thought on how to communicate with non-believers. Don't forget the quote though, "Don't have to bite into an apple to know that it's rotten".

Regarding your second comment:

Yes, I've watched just about every episode, and the are slam our faith more often then not then anything else. Plus, they're just not funny anymore, they've lost it. Now that they're live every Friday, the creativity is gone, also when Craig Lauzon and Alan Park joined...it just stank after that -_- I don't enjoy it anymore.

One other segment showed a satire on the "MAC and PC" guys, instead it was "THEN and NOW" guys: THEN portraying the responsible, clean Christian, and NOW being portrayed as a gay, "do what you feel", athiest.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Liberal Atheism is a major problem in America. Because of thier stupid idiology and fairy tale theories,STD's are on the rise{thanks to their corrupt way of teaching about sex as well as the porno industry},the porno industry is growing,perversion is becoming exceptible,drug use is rising,more Gangs are forming,more criminals are being made,many of our youth{too many if ya ask me}are being brainwashed at collage campuses,most of our modernday entertainment is screwed,and christians are being persecuted day in and day out. And the Worst part of this mess is that We are letting them have their way. C'mon people stand up for truth and justice. Take a stand against Liberal Atheism, It's what Christ yould want. I think the world would be much better place. if Athiestic Progressives didn't exist.

Perhaps you're being a tad bit too extreme?

[CephasWhite]

Liberal Atheism is a major problem in America. Because of thier stupid idiology and fairy tale theories,STD's are on the rise{thanks to their corrupt way of teaching about sex as well as the porno industry},the porno industry is growing,perversion is becoming exceptible,drug use is rising,more Gangs are forming,more criminals are being made,many of our youth{too many if ya ask me}are being brainwashed at collage campuses,most of our modernday entertainment is screwed,and christians are being persecuted day in and day out. And the Worst part of this mess is that We are letting them have their way. C'mon people stand up for truth and justice. Take a stand against Liberal Atheism, It's what Christ yould want. I think the world would be much better place. if Athiestic Progressives didn't exist.

Where would the balance be then between God's Word and the devil's lies then. Unfortunately both sides have to be there to test our faith and prove that in dire times we are still faithful and do not give in to the devil's lies.

Yes, the world will be a better place...when Yihoshua returns. Seriously. Right now, we are heading towards the end times, and we're not that far away from His return.

Remember this passage:

Lovers of Themselves

(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NIV) But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. {2} People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, {3} without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, {4} treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- {5} having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

Another passage (I don't know where it's from, I don't remember) is where God tells us that He has shown His people many things that prove about who He is and what the right things to do are, but they still turn a blind eye. He says, "let them continue to do wrong" He has continuously warned them so many times.

Of course, I'm not saying stop helping them, but the need to drive the sinful wrongdoers to Christ has to be done by His and their own accord. They have to make the decision themselves.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Perhaps you're being a tad bit too extreme?

Mmm. What she's saying isn't exactly wrong either.

Pluralism kills...