Legal or not illegal

[Momo-P]

I can't lie, I do download illegal music...but lately I have been reconsidering.

For my Japanese stuff, I feel justified. Japanese CD's cost a bit to begin with, but plus shipping? While some could say eighteen dollars isn't a bad price with shipping, even the American retail price is knocked down on the official stores. In fact, most American CD's are retailed at about eighteen, but then are knocked down to about nine bucks on amazon. Heck, I even checked the official record company's store for Kelly Clarkson's CD and what did they list? Thirteen bucks!

So not only is it a subject of money when it comes to Japanese CD's, but sadly there isn't an alternative. There isn't a J-pop iTUNES where I can download anime songs for a price, so what? I spend a hand full of money and then get two songs I want? That's fair...

However, the American songs? This I will give them. I may not want to buy the CD's because I don't want every song, but there IS a given alternative. Songs can be purchased online for about a buck a piece, and when you compare that number to the CD being sold? That Kelly Clarkson CD I mentioned had thirteen tracks, and as I said, was being sold by the official producer at that amount, so it's not like you're being ripped off (though if you get it for it's retail I'd be inclinded to say you are...).

Anyways! To my main question...I love music, but I don't feel like paying for it. I know that may sound greedy, but people can legally record music off the radio. The radio station paid for the CD but you didn't...same principal as someone buying the CD and uploading it online. To say it's legal to get free music one way and then whine about another just irks me off, so forget it.

However...is it illegal to listen to music on youtube? According to copyright crap they can't even use that music unless they have the artists permission (which I think is bull when it's for fun like an AMV, they're not making a profit off it), but in turn, are you illegal for watching it? I mean, I think they're more concerned with the people putting it out, but better ask. Especially if, music aside, I just wanted to watch a dang AMV. ._.

Furthermore, the whole downloading thing specifically centered on downloading the songs onto your computer and sharing them. I noticed while looking for a music video, there was apparently a record company (RCA? Have to check) who had an account and hosted music videos on there. Now...these ARE the owners and they put that sucker on there. Therefore if I listened to the song from that youtube video, it definitely wouldn't be illegal, right? I mean, if I don't buy the CD it's their own fault for putting it up where I can freely listen to it. >>;

I know all this may sound like some whiney way to avoid paying for music, but honestly? I don't have an MP3 player or a CD player. I don't burn CD's anymore and just listen to crap when I'm online. To at least be able to go on youtube would make me happy because it'd give me a choice of background music without disobeying the government's laws. Maybe in a way I'm taking this "obey the government" thing a bit too far, my parents and boyfriend are in agreement that there's a lot of greed behind this law so they aren't as hyped up as me, but...

*shrugs* Might as well ask.

[beau99]

You're not the only one.

Look at Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails. He's famous. He also downloads music illegally. He hates using iTunes as even it's overpriced (and has DRM to boot) and all the other download services in his eyes have too many flaws. And he hates going to record stores, as it's giving the majority of the cash to a middle man.

But really... artists make nothing off of album sales anyway, compared to merchandise and concerts.

[AsianBlossom]

There is a Japanese version of iTunes...unfortunately, it doesn't take our foreign money. You have to use Japanese iTunes gift cards, which can be found in some online stores. I'd name one, but I think it has a few innapropriate items on it. To find it, log out of your iTunes account and scroll all the way to the bottom of the store page. There will be a scroll bar at the bottom listing different countries, so select the one written in kanji. Or, to go by flag, click on the round flag icon, and you'll be taken to the Japanese version of iTunes.

And BTW, both words in your title for this thread mean the same thing. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Momo-P]

There is a Japanese version of iTunes...unfortunately, it doesn't take our foreign money. You have to use Japanese iTunes gift cards, which can be found in some online stores. I'd name one, but I think it has a few innapropriate items on it. To find it, log out of your iTunes account and scroll all the way to the bottom of the store page. There will be a scroll bar at the bottom listing different countries, so select the one written in kanji. Or, to go by flag, click on the round flag icon, and you'll be taken to the Japanese version of iTunes.

Thing is though, I'm unsure if the songs on Japanese iTunes are even Japanese. From what I know, Japan is more into CD's, they aren't big on the downloading music online. If anything I think the songs on iTunes are just American labels. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

And BTW, both words in your title for this thread mean the same thing. Just thought I'd point that out.

Oops. XD

[EricTheFred]

Just FYI, for legal CD purchases, I mostly go with yesasia.com. They can range from a little to a lot cheaper. I recently got a Halcali CD through them for about 70 percent of what Amazon wanted to charge me.

The problem with Amazon is that for Japanese imports (true imports, not made-for-export versions) they are simply transferring the order to Amazon.jp. I proved this to myself once by registering on Amazon.jp, then setting up the same order of three CDs through it, and through my regular Amazon.com account. Sure enough, when I converted Okane to Money, the orders were identical in price. So, even through Amazon.com, you are paying an individual shipping cost all the way from Japan. Yesasia seems to be bulk mailing out of Hong Kong, which makes them slower but much cheaper (the item prices themselves are about the same, the difference is in the shipping cost.)

[Azier the Swordsman]

There are plenty of artists who, believe it or not, actually support "illegal" downloading. As far as I understand, they themselves don't make much money off the record sales, and even resent the RIAA.

[I'm] Very positive about the internet, Napster. I think it's a tremendous tool for reaching many more people than we ever could without it. When you release music you want it to be heard by people. Artists really want to have their music heard. They want to have their creation heard by people. Nothing is going to do that better than Napster. I can't tell you how many kids have come up to me and said, 'I downloaded a couple of tunes off Napster and I went out and bought the album.' Or they say, 'I want to come see you play.' I don't really make money off of record sales anyway...

...this is not rocket science. Instead of spending all this money litigating against kids who are the people they're trying to sell things to in the first place, they have to learn how to effectively use the Internet. For the artists, my a**... I didn't ask them to protect me, and I don't want their protection." -David Draiman, Disturbed

Weird Al's "Don't Download This Song" also picks on the absurd lengths record companies will go to protect their properties.

Not to say that this makes downloading necessarily "right". But it's really more of a gray area than anything. I will say this... I often listen to music online quite often, and it is for this reason that I now own a lot of albums. I never would have discovered most of my favorite bands had I not been able to first hear them for free on place like YouTube, Myspace, ect.

[LorentzForce]

I don't really see this as a grey area, rather it's upholding aged laws that were meant for hard-copy book authors to a new era where such copying is trivial.

We're just in a stage in middle ground where old industry is dying (and screaming really really loudly about it) and new one is emerging. I predict that eventually we'll move to properly made online stores that deal with music properly, where people come together to share music, enjoy it, help spread the artists names further, buy their T-shirts and albums, all online.

I despise iTunes and likes. All they have are laughable DRMed low quality mainstream stuffs that costs a fortune considering what you're getting. I want flac album downloads already D:

Even funny is that people are willing to pay for a real good online record shop of sort, not like these existing ones. Only thing stopping them emerging are the current record companies holding the contracts on distribution...

[Momo-P]

Wow, I knew some artists didn't care for the RIAA, but this really gets me thinking more. That's not to say I wanna ignore the guys who help put the actual songs together (ones who work for the studios), but when the song basically belongs to the guys singing it...

I guess the problem for me is due to Rom 13:1. It tell us to submit to government law because it's what God put in charge, but what about when the government makes weird decisions?

As I said earlier, there's no difference between the radio playing a song freely and me uploading a song freely. I mean, the radio paid for it's copy of the CD and I paid for mine. We both just decide to be nice and give it to anyone who desires it. I know someone once said the radio is losing money if we download music...but how? Last I knew, listening to the radio in the car or at work are still the most popular choices. Most people aren't crazy about taking their MP3 player to the work place or messing around with CD's while driving the car.

[Alexander]

I actually use eMusic for 99% of my purchases. The music is DRM free and I get 50 downloads for $15 a month. If that helps anything. XD

As for Japanese music, I tend to take advantage of my local con whenever I can. Or I simply do without. If anyone knows of any good sites where I can get my favorite Japanese music CD's online for a price at $9.99, please give me a ring.

And when it comes to downloading without paying, I have to abide by the old fashion rules. It's stealing plain and simple. If the artists have a problem with where the money is going to, then there needs to be a change. However, just illegally downloading won't solve the problem.

[Puguni]

My college has a music library. I have iTunes.

Enough said.

It's still legal. >_>

[EricTheFred]

I know someone once said the radio is losing money if we download music...but how? Last I knew, listening to the radio in the car or at work are still the most popular choices. Most people aren't crazy about taking their MP3 player to the work place or messing around with CD's while driving the car.

I actually only listen to PBS, the news station, and occasionally the classical music station (which is different than PBS in Dallas. We're the only town I know of with a commercial-funded classical music station.) It's the MP3 player at work and CDs in the car for me. I admit this could be due to my taste in music, though. We don't have a jazz fusion station around here.

The radio station is losing money because every downloader is a little piece of the big statistic that is the radio listening audience. They don't count you literally, but by means of surveys and statistical tables they can estimate your part of it pretty accurately. The overall size of the pie decides the overall number of advertising dollars (through free market mechanisms) and the size of the specific station's share decide how big a slice of that pie each station gets, through their advertising sales. A station with bigger numbers can ask bigger bucks. Every downloader, legal or illegal, is a few cents or dollars less they can demand.

My MP3 player is full of legally purchased music. I sometimes have a torrent'ed album I'm trying out short term, generally something from a foreign market like Japan, because it's too expensive to purchase blind. For stuff available in the US, I can try CDs in the store, hear partial tracks on Amazon, hear stuff on radio stations, etc. but generally speaking, I can't do this in a satisfactory manner for Japanese, Filipino, or other such less accessible markets. It's too expensive to purchase track-by-track downloads if you don't already know what you want to buy.

And yes, I purchase what I decide to keep, and delete the rest.

Latest purchase, (made just tonight, in fact) "Dream Diver" by Santara, decided by precisely this method. I had already used the cdjapan site to hear some partials, then downloaded a couple tracks in complete form. Having concluded I liked it, I made my purchase.

[beau99]

And when it comes to downloading without paying, I have to abide by the old fashion rules. It's stealing plain and simple. If the artists have a problem with where the money is going to, then there needs to be a change. However, just illegally downloading won't solve the problem.

Which is exactly why Trent Reznor, Korn, Barenaked Ladies, They Might Be Giants and Switchfoot went indie. More are going to follow.

[ChristianKitsune]

I download anime music......and then when I find the CDs I buy them and delete the songs I downloaded.. >.>''''

[Stephen]

Moved to the music board.

[blkmage]

This issue is much, much more complicated and deep than simply whether or not downloading music is legal or not. The factor in deciding whether or not downloading music without paying is wrong or not boils down to copyright law. The consequences of our interpretation of what copyright should be extend far beyond the realm of music, impacting everything artistic and creative.

I'm of the position that the copying of artistic and creative works is legal. There are a bunch of reasons why I believe this, but it's kind of late so I'll talk about my thoughts later. But, I believe that this is one of the most important issues that needs to be understood, because it's fairly important with respect to our rights and freedoms.

[Kanerou]

I know, I'm kinda gravedigging here.

With the Berne Convention, I don't see how it is legal. I do agree, though, that something needs to change.