Finally asking for help.

[Kenshin17]

Uh... I for one think this is the wrong line of thought to be going down. Don't get me wrong - tithing is great and nice and something you can most certainly do as a personal decision in your relationship with God. But it is NOT required of Christians, nor should we be using God like a gumball machine - pop in 10% and see if something good comes out. That's simply not how it works. We shouldn't be trying to force God's hand by doing stuff to please Him and create an "I gave you this God, so now you gotta give me this." If this is your motivation then your expectations are more likely than not going to be disapointed, because we're into the zone of God having to meet your expectation or needing to do something for you in return for all the gosh darn good things you've done for Him. Your will is being put above God's or on level with God, rather than surrendering to Him and trusting that He will work it out in His own time.

You guys ARE aware that tithing is a part of the OT law and that there is NO commandment to tithe in NT, right? If you're going to take the line of "only when we are faithful to Tithe will he pour out blessing on us" I would have to wonder why you aren't keeping kosher and meeting all the other requirements of law since you are apparently still relying on it rather than God to fulfill some of the needs in your life.

Jesus said that the greatest commandment was love (Matthew 22:38-39). Love can only come from God because He extended it us first. So love God first, then in reflecting God in ourselves we love others. The only thing we are commanded to do is to live our lives for Jesus because He gave His life for us - literally to give all to Him. I believe this means to walk in our roles as children of God, to give where needed, whatever is needed, whenever someone comes across your path who needs you (it may not even be monetary).

These two are good examples: Luke 18: 11-14 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Who was blessed here? Was it because of tithes, or because of the grace of God?)

Then in Matthew 19:16-21: "And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." ( The parable message here seems to be give up all wordliness and follow Jesus, again the law does not grant any kudos to you.)







Now, I am NOT saying that tithing is not a good idea and I'm not trying to paint you guys as works-based, but I don't believe it's particularly helpful to point fingers at Bakura and say "God must not be blessing you because you didn't do such-and-such" (*coughcough* Anyone remember the three accusers in Job? *coughcough*). Follow God with all your heart, surrender to Him, and He will give you comfort, peace, and blessing according to His plan for you in His own time.

As for tithing, if you want to and if you think it will help you grow closer to God or feel called to give, go right ahead. There are many good organizations for missionaries, church workers, and general stuff like St. Jude's that you could donate too (research before hand so you know where exactly your money is going though). But I would not recommend doing this if it is going to be a guilty "gotta do it" ritual, and I sincerely think that that will only make things worst.

More importantly, I think you should give the Bible a shot. The Word is your sword from all the stress of life and shield against depression. Find an easy to read translation that you like (NASB is good) If you wanna get closer to God, I'd say this is a better place to start than guilt-trip tithing. I know you've had a bad experience in church and stuff, but that's why you should read the Bible so you know what God's all about. People are people, and jerks can go to church, but that does not mean that Jesus was not your perfect savior and will never let you down.

Have you tried getting involved in a young couples Bible study group for you and your husband? Just going on a Wednesday evening won't be quite so 'churchy.' But even if you don't want to go to church, how about reading a chapter a night before you go to bed or at a time that's good for you?

The tithe is not "something nice a Christian can do" or "Old Testement" law.

Old Testement is the Bible just as much as New.

And Jesus says, IN THE NEW TESTEMENT.

"Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceasers, and give unto God that which is Gods."

In other words, pay your taxes, and give your Tithe.

I'll be honest, I don't think a Christian can really say anything about being financially in trouble if they are not Tithing. It sounds harsh but thats what the Bible says.

The answer to this problem is so simple and yet you guys go and analyze everything.

All she needs to do is Tithe, and be a good steward of her money.

Thats it. Its that simple.

[USSRGirl]

Bakura, hey have you tried http://www.careercruising.com yet? It has a handy college finder. I'm not sure if you can register without having a school sign you up though. Also, any particular state/region you're looking for colleges in or just anywhere?


To Kenshin: ..................... All I will say is that if life were that simple, Kenshin, we would see huge demographics of wealthy Christians freeloading off God's mystical gumball machine. I never said the OT wasn't the Bible, but Jesus was the fulfillment of the law - the law saves no one remember? Neither does doing vain actions bless anyone. God blesses people. Render unto God... well okay, what do you think we should be rendering unto God? Is God on par with Caeser that He wants a tax from us? Is He the big IRS agent in the sky telling us to pay our taxes? No. God is interested in people - He wants us to be His tools. Money is of the world, God demands our souls. And sometimes that mean giving, sometimes it doesn't. "I'll be honest, I don't think a Christian can really say anything about being financially in trouble if they are not Tithing. It sounds harsh but thats what the Bible says." ... I see. *Goes to scratch out Job, Jeremiah, David, and half the people in the Bible* And uh... WHERE does the Bible say this again? I'm sorry, but statements like that just tick me off. If that's how you think... I sure hope you never get into financial trials because you're gonna have a heck of a hard time there. But anyway, debating in the thread isn't going to help, so I'll stop right there. PM me if you wanna talk more.

[bakura_fan]

All she needs to do is Tithe, and be a good steward of her money.

Thats it. Its that simple.

I've tithed before, but it was always under my parents house, I recieved my money from them, and eventually I just tithed because if I didn't I would get a guilt trip the whole week (eventually I just started lieing cause it was easier than guilt trip). When my parents asked micah if he tithed, he told them he does when he can (meaning when he has money). well they took that as "he doesn't tithe!" *noses in air* Hmph! How can he live with himself!

So...I do apologize if tithing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll probably start doing it once micah and I are together again, and one of us has a job, and we find a church. Until then, most likely no. And if God doesn't bless me until then...oh well. To me that feels as if God's reacting to our actions (which micah's uncle john says, He does not...). That's probably why I'm not that concerned with my focus being on that. When I go to church, when I read my Bible, when I tithe...I want it to be when I feel called to do it. It may be soon, it may be a few months to half a year. I don't know. Right now i'm just not in that kind of position. I probably could read the Bible...since the owners have what...3 in the lobby behind the desk? o_o well...it is a motel I guess. Yet...they don't read em. *shrugs* I typically open the Bible...and get bored after 5 minutes. So I'm reluctant to open it again.

[K. Ayato]

Guys, that's beside the point at this moment. What matters is that bakura_fan needs help in managing money. Again I suggest a budget chart and, if nothing else, deep consideration of tithing. Ask the Lord to help you in your views of that issue since it for the moment doesn't sit well with you. We can only give advice, hon. It's up to you to either give it a shot, or ignore it.

I'm with Kenshin in that "getting by" in the Christian life is not very productive nor healthy. I'm very sorry that you didn't get the best examples of how to live as a person, let alone a Christian, but you shouldn't let it distort your views of how to live your own life. Again, people can only give advice, but the final decision is yours alone.

As far as being uncomfortable in social situations, well, that's something you can't change overnight. It's gonna have to take willingness to try in the face of fear plus a huge amount of determination. Jesus said that where two or three Believers are gathered together, He's right there in the middle (Matthew 18:20). Even Solomon, when in his most cynical state while writing Ecclesiastes noted that it wasn't right for anyone to be alone. (chapter 4, starting in verse 10).

I know it's a challenge for you, hon, and I know you're struggling. But keep fighting and don't be too afraid or too proud to admit you need help in certain areas. God made us to be social beings; we cannot fight that.

*Hugs* Praying for you, hon. Don't hesitate to send a PM or IM my way.

[SP1]

Get bored reading the bible. Hmm. You know, large portions of it are masterpieces of literature (aside from the whole word of God thing). Is there anyone you can read it with? Bounce thoughts off of? That might help.

However, rest assured that if you actually read the bible for 5 minutes every day (that is, until you got bored), you would be reading the bible more than most christians.

I recommend the credit counselling, too. There might be some unique options available to you because you and your husband are both students (like low interest loans to pay off those credit cards, a lot of the expenses you are describing seem education related).

This may seem cold, but if a pet dies, perhaps now is not the time to replace it. You have a hole in your life that cannot be filled by a pet, a cool manga or a video game. Only God's Holy Spirit can do that. So, if you don't have 10% of your cash available to give to God, then how about 10% of your free time? In our modern culture "time is money". Frequenty at my church, it is the congregations time we need, not so much their cash.

Praying for you. The financial problems you discuss are not insurmountable, hang in there.

[bakura_fan]

Well I typically wouldn't replace a pet that fast...cept it was for my other pet. It took me forever to get my blood parrot(gift from my mother in law) to come out of hiding and eat *eat healthy* and the only time he would come out (and stay out) and eat healthy (as in not wasting a ton of food) was when he had another fish in the tank. I didn't realize this until my puffer fish died and he didn't eat for two days. So I went out and bought another blood parrot and he immediatley started eating again. And the whole thing with tithing...I havn't been able to talk it over with Micah, hence another reason why I'm not too keen on doing it at the moment.

hmm. 10% of time. That would work for me. Since I typically can't sleep at night...maybe reading my bible before going to bed would be good....wait. =_= dang it...no Bible at home. >_> none that I've found at least...;-; I miss my Study Bible. havn't seen it in months (it's in Maine...somewhere...probably in storage...i'll see if Micah can bring it with him when he comes back...if he comes back)

[bakura_fan]

update: well I had nothing to do before work (i finished up my chores early) so I decided i might as well head over towards work, since that's where the church is also. I wasn't sure if it was open, but then I saw someone pull up in front and go inside, so I figured I should park and go in too. I went in, didn't see anyone, but I heard someone, so I just kinda hung out in the small welcome area. Then I heard footsteps comming from the downstairs, and the guy walked past me, said hi, and asked if he could help me. I told him I was looking for information on anything going on during the week, not on sunday for service. He suggested I talk to the lady in the office. She told me abotu some small groups and what not...not exactly what I want. =_= Then I asked if there was an extra Bible around that I could have, we finally found a few at the library, but she wants to give me a new one if possible so I told her my work schedule in case. So now I have a Bible. NIV, concordance, single column ed, red letter. I talked with her about my past and everything and she says that it sounds like I ahve a major spirtual battle going on...so I may go to church next sunday...if I feel better *sinus infection...ick*.

[SP1]

Good. Glad to see at least a few things falling into place...not that there's any coincidence here.