The Heavenly Sword Thread

[Omega Amen]

I decided to make a thread dedicated to upcoming PS3 game Heavenly Sword so that I would not clutter up the forum with multiple threads whenever I get excited over news or new media.

For those who don't know, Heavenly Sword is a fantasy beat-em-up game that is inspired by kung-fu wuxia films like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Hero. Here is the thread I made showing some recent screenshots.

This past weekend, a British gaming TV show, Gamer.tv, had a show dedicated to an exclusive preview on the game. While there is some footage on some old builds of the game, there is a lot of brand new stuff from newer builds. After seeing it,... I am really impressed... extremely impressed. Showing things in motion really help see other excellent aspects of the production so far.

Here is a high-quality recording of the show. It is around 330MB. It is in MP4 format, so Quicktime can play it.

Here is the show in YouTube, but there is a large quality loss: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

One note: there are a couple of bugs shown in the footage that have been removed, according to Ninja Theory lead programmer, Deano Calver, which are the standing still AI and the shadow flickering.

I think high-quality mocap acting is probably the most stunning part. Getting Andy Serkis and Weta involved really made those dramatic scenes awesome. Nariko looking and talking to the camera... Kai screaming and sobbing... and Kai jumping into Nariko's arms.... It's so... real.

The scale of the levels, the graphics, and interactivity of the environment is fantastic. The waterfalls, and shooting cannonballs into the battlefield really stood out to me.

Ninja Theory says that a demo will be released very soon. All I can say is that I want to play this game... NOW!

[Bobtheduck]

Well, when I get my replacement, I'll download the demo (as well as redownloading the Ninja Gaiden, Motorstorm, GTHD, Rub a Dub, and resistance demos... Oh, and Lemmings)

As low as this game is on my radar, I HAVE to watch / play anything that has Gollum in it. Also, this game may create a new internet meme, but I won't repeat it here... Let's just say "Sacred" and that's as far as I'll go. As to whether it will be "Giant Enemy Crab" or "This is Sparta" is yet to be seen.

[HyperSock]

Eh... Never heard of it...

[Bobtheduck]

Eh... Never heard of it...

Well, there were plenty of links there that could enlighten you.

*smile*

In any case... should have my replacement PS3 in 2 weeks or so...

[Raiden no Kishi]

Dang. Between this, MGS4, Kingdom Hearts 3, Killzone 2, Final Fantasy XIII, and Devil May Cry 4 [and I'll bet you I'm forgetting stuff], I may have to buy a PS3 after all. Dang it. XD

.rai//

[Bobtheduck]

Dang. Between this, MGS4, Kingdom Hearts 3, Killzone 2, Final Fantasy XIII, and Devil May Cry 4 [and I'll bet you I'm forgetting stuff], I may have to buy a PS3 after all. Dang it. XD

.rai//

Better get it before the $500 60 gig sells out... Yeah, that's right... Sony's dropping the 60 gig with the Emotion Engine in favor of another 600 dollar package that puts in 20 measly gigabytes and a game as replacement for dropping EE. I'm so incredibly mad right now...

Or wait and force Sony to NOT drop the 60 gig that has the emotion engine in it...

http://blog.us.playstation.com/

Tell them how you feel about the fake out with the price drop. Tell them they've screwed their customers over for the last time...

[Bobtheduck]

Been playing the demo, and I need to give credit where it's due... This is the most beautiful thing I've seen on the PS3 so far... Not a big hack-n-slash fan, though... And I'm having a very difficult time figuring out the combat system... I've got the basic idea (left trigger for distance, right trigger for the big sword) but the second group of enemies made short work of me as I mostly wandered around looking for healing items or something...

Guess it's just because I'm not really into these kind of games (stuff like God of War)

I did pull off 2 "death to future generations" moves, though... ouch... It gets cinematic whenever you do those moves...

As my experience with these games is limited, I'll still say that I like Ninja Gaiden Sigma better. So far... Love the lip sync and magesty and epic feel of this one, though.

[Omega Amen]

Time for some updates.

Here is the new E3 2007 trailer.

Ninja Theory has created a thread of HD wallpapers one can use with the PS3 since the 1.9 firmware update.

Also, the Demo has been released on PSN. I have a lot of detailed impressions to give later.... For now, I am disappointed they used the old build from Sony Gamer's Day as the demo, which makes it really short, super easy AI, and it does not look as polished as the latest E3 footage.

That being said, the combat system has me very intrigued... which surprises me a bit. This is very different from other games in this genre.... It will take a long time for me to gather my thoughts in words. So I will save my combat impressions from this demo in another post later.

EDIT: In fact, look at the Gamespot Stage Demo Video Ninja Theory did to see the major differences in the E3 build.

[Omega Amen]

It turns out I really gave my demo impressions, especially elaborating the combat system on this episode of the Gamecast. It lasts almost 20 minutes. While it may seem like a shameless plug, I really do not have time to write out all my thoughts.

I also have some awesome videos to share:

This is a cut scene showing all the evil bosses in the game. This is probably one of the best videogame cut scenes ever. Yes, it is using the game's graphics engine, and yes, the acting is that good.

Here is a four-part series of gameplay videos that leads up to a boss fight: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4
There are a few audio bugs, but those should be ironed out before release. I am really digging the music there, especially at the beginning of Part 1.

Finally, Joystiq interviewed the story writer of the game, Rhianna Pratchett. It turns out her dad is the SciFi/Fantasy writer Terry Pratchett, and she grew up with a healthy appreciation for video games. I thought it would be interesting read for those who want to get a sense of the game's story.

[Bobtheduck]

... I just wish I had more to go on than the demo I got... Really...

[Omega Amen]

Real quick, here is part 1 of a blog post by SaiTong Man, lead combat designer, on the combat system. It seems it confirms my thoughts on the "origins" of the combat system I expressed on the Gamecast a while ago.

Now, apparently, there is a Heavenly Sword prequel animation being made and released as well as "Making of" videos.

You can see the first part of the prequel animation here. Again, there is something about that beginning musical theme that I find really appealing....

If you read further along that post, this is the start of a 5-week video campaign where these videos are released weekly. Furthermore, on the PlayStation Network, there are HD versions available for download.

EDIT: Gametrailers has the first "Making of" video.

[Alexander]

I don't mean to be the barer of bad news but.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/815/815031p2.html

This is not a good omen. Although I'm half unsurprised.

Even I was expecting an 8 score from the previews of the game, even if I was uninterested.

Hang in PS3 owners! There's still hope.

[Omega Amen]

I don't mean to be the barer of bad news but.

http://ps3.ign- <snip>

Reviews from IGN?

No one is concerned about that.

[Alexander]

Reviews from IGN?

No one is concerned about that.

Really? Nintendo fans take them seriously. At least I do. Who do you take with creditability then?

[Omega Amen]

To me, the subject of game reviewing practices by game enthusiast writers should be its own dedicated thread. There is so much to discuss it could easily derail this thread.

But I will concisely answer your questions.

Really? Nintendo fans take them seriously.

Well with Matt Casamassina in charge of Nintendo previews and review process for Nintendo-platform titles at IGN, I can understand why Nintendo fans look to IGN, since Matt C. is a hardcore Nintendo fan as well, making him a "friend" with similar tastes in games.

Who do you take with creditability then?

Well, when Greg Kasavin was Editor-In-Chief of Gamespot, I looked to Gamespot's senior editors' reviews, not really for their scores, but for what they wrote, especially Kasavin's. Now with his leaving, and recent high turnover rate there, I am not as interested in their views as I used to be.

Right now, I am looking at websites that have passionate gaming journalists/writers that are not solely dependent on "teh intarweb" behavior of young male adults or the game publishers. Ars Technica's Ben Kuchera gave a thoughtful review of Bioshock, and the Gamers With Jobs website's writing has a reflective tone, which is rather refreshing. I am considering those websites.

Regardless, to bring this back to Heavenly Sword, as I said on the Gamecast, I do expect that this game will be very polarizing. Some sites will like the different approach that Heavenly Sword brings to this genre, others will equate with this difference from the established game play mechanics from DMC six years ago as a sign of mediocrity.

The best analogy I could use are subgenres of martial arts films. There are quick, modern setting, fast-paced Hong Kong films starring Jackie Chan or Jet Li that have plenty fast strikes, guns, awful plot and forgetful characters, and some attractive women to serve as eye candy. Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden closely resemble these films.

There are also wuxia films like Hero and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, where the choreography is slower but more artistic and graceful, stunning color and scenery is shown, beautiful music played, and a cohesive narrative where literary themes and character development are explored (including the beautiful female characters). Heavenly Sword is trying to resemble these wuxia films in many aspects intentionally.

Personally, I like both subgenres of films that I mentioned. I also know that a lot of young men like the fast-paced Hong Kong stuff but do not find wuxia appealing at all. And I would not be surprised to see this difference of opinion show up on reviews on gaming websites.

In fact, I would say if you know a reviewer's taste in martial arts films, you could accurately predict his review score on Heavenly Sword.

[Alexander]

*scratches head*

Ummm, I'm afraid my viewpoint is a lot more simplistic and doesn't connect video games with films. XD

I actually don't depend on a single review site for any video game I want. I prefer to see a bunch of different review to see what the overall opinion is with the game I'm buying. And of course, there's going to be the odd one in the group that gives a very high or very low score.

And of course, the main reason I depend on them is that I need to know if the game I want is worth the $50-$60 I'm about to pay for it.

Am I saying that if Heavenly Sword continues to get these reviews, should I judge whether you should buy the game or not? No. I myself plan to buy NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams even if the game play doesn't match that of the Saturn classic.

And I do read a review without judging the score. And it seems to me that Heavenly Sword focuses more on presentation then overall game play and substance.

Finally I'm not trying to be a fan boy. Even though I had no interest in the game, I was expecting the game to be a must own title for the PS3, and for fans of the game, it still will be.

EDIT: GACK! I'm sorry. I misinterpreted your post completely. We're both on the same page of opinion, so excuse me for misinterpreting it the wrong way.

[Omega Amen]

Ummm, I'm afraid my viewpoint is a lot more simplistic and doesn't connect video games with films. XD

I think such an analogy is actually quite pertinent to Heavenly Sword. The developers of Ninja Theory have said many times they look to wuxia films and watch them constantly for inspiration and direction in all aspects of design for Heavenly Sword including the gameplay design... meaning the "feel" and "look" of the combat system, the core gameplay mechanic. Depending on how it "feels" and "looks" to the player will determine whether he feels the game is meaningfully substantive.

Which brings me to my response on this next point.

And I do read a review without judging the score. And it seems to me that Heavenly Sword focuses more on presentation then overall game play and substance.

I believe you are still referring to the IGN-UK review? If one reads carefully behind his hyperbolic and overblown statements, you will realize he does not care for the combat system, although he felt there was a lot of depth to it.

This one impression will affect the rest of his assessment of the game. Why? Because in this game's genre, fighting is done over and over... and over again, usually progressing by "rooms" that are often "locked" in some manner, forcing the player to defeat all combatants before proceeding through the level. All established major franchises in this genre (God of War, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden) has used this design liberally.

Consequently, if the player likes the combat system, he will feel excited and entertained. If he does not like the combat system, he will feel bored and find progressing through the game tedious. It turns out the IGN-UK reviewer is the latter case.

This brings me back to my previous post on why I expect this game to be polarizing. Heavenly Sword presents a combat system that is very different in design, look, and feel than any other game in the same genre. Some people will "get" it and find it enjoyable. Some will not "get" it and think the gameplay is not that great and, as a result, state that only its presentation is great.

In summary, I predict the review spread will be a result of the reviewer's personal taste of combat style in this genre of video games rather than a lack of thought/focus/effort by the developer.

[Alexander]

Suit yourself then. I guess we'll all (or anyone who owns a PS3) just have to play it first before making any other judgments.

And that is that. You've already beaten my argument for the time being. XD

However, I will make a counter-argument in that it seems that the whole game lasts for just 6 hours. And I'm not counting just review sites. Plus there doesn't seem to be very much replay value. At $60, I would humbly pass even if I did own a PS3. If it was a game that built itself around replay value, then I could understand the 6 hour-or-less game play, but as it stands, I'm disappointed with the shortness.

[Omega Amen]

However, I will make a counter-argument in that it seems that the whole game lasts for just 6 hours. And I'm not counting just review sites.

Did you count Deano Calver, the lead programmer, who has stated, before any review was posted, that it takes him about 9-10 hours on normal difficulty to finish the game?

Plus there doesn't seem to be very much replay value. At $60, I would humbly pass even if I did own a PS3. If it was a game that built itself around replay value, then I could understand the 6 hour-or-less game play, but as it stands, I'm disappointed with the shortness.

Maybe so. It might be unusually short, but there are some things to remember about gameplay length and replay incentives.

First, if the 6-hour length is a reliable measurement of gameplay length to an average gamer, then yes, that is shorter than normal for this genre, but only by a few hours. This type of game is not meant to be a long affair, and a good deal of the time, other games in this genre make walking/platforming between fighting encounters a significant portion of the "playing time." In my opinion, sometimes game designers put too much "playing time" in these portions to make the game longer for the sake of a marketing point.

Second, Heavenly Sword uses the same type of replay incentives that other franchises in this genre have made in the past. One of the major ones are levels of difficulty. It is an area rarely discussed in reviews unfortunately, which is a shame since most fans of this genre will replay these type of games at higher difficulty levels for the challenge and love of the combat system. There is a "Hell mode" in Heavenly Sword which is supposed to dramatically increase the difficulty of the game, and I have not seen any review mention this yet. As far as we know, maybe normal difficulty is set too easy for most game reviewers out there.

One last note in my reply, I have never stated that Heavenly Sword: would appeal to everyone with a PS3, be game-of-the-year material, and/or have flawless game/combat design. In fact, I am honestly surprised that the press is expecting this to be a big seller. The genre does not have wide appeal in general.

It just happens that I love games in this genre and wuxia films. And there happens to be a game that seriously tries to fuse these two forms of entertainment together, a combination that no one has seriously tried before. So naturally, I am excited and I see some promise when I have been following this game for over a year. Of course, this could all blow up in my face, and if it does, when I submit my review, I will let everybody know.

[Tommy]

Did you count Deano Calver, the lead programmer, who has stated, before any review was posted, that it takes him about 9-10 hours on normal difficulty to finish the game?

The back of the box of Grandia claims there is over 80 hours of worth of gameplay.
I beat that game 100% in 30 hours.

[Alexander]

The back of the box of Grandia claims there is over 80 hours of worth of gameplay.
I beat that game 100% in 30 hours.

Along with Twilight Princess being 50 hours to complete or the so called reports of Metroid Prime 3 taking 40 from some.

I beat Twilight Princess withing 24 and for the other two primes, 15 hours.

Omega: I'm sorry for looking at you the wrong way. I really interpreted fanboyness in your posts, and while I myself have a hard time keeping mine under control, this isn't the case with you. So I apologize.

I also think we were both under the wrong interpretation. I see games, no matter what genera or theme they may take, as just simply games overall. While Heavenly Sword appeals to you in a very specific way, which is understandable.

[uc pseudonym]

I've been following this thread for a while but only decided to post now. In any case, I am interested in what I have heard about Heavenly Sword. Ultimately my biggest concern would be how enjoyable the gameplay is, and while I like the premise I'm not sure if I would find it involving in an enjoyable way. Unfortunately, I don't have any close friends with a PS3...

[Omega Amen]

Okay, I decided to put as many Heavenly Sword videos I can before the release of the game.

Heavenly Sword - Animated Series (High-Def versions downloadable)
Episode One - The Legend of the Sword
Episode Two - Guardians of the Sword
Episode Three - The Rise of Evil
Episode Four - The Divine Birth
Episode Five - The Day of the Warrior

Heavenly Sword - The Making of (High-Def versions downloadable)
Episode One - Introduction
Episode Two - Bringing Design to Life
Episode Three - Capturing Performance
Episode Four - The Sound of Combat
Episode Five - Creating the Music

Heavenly Sword CG Commercial/Videos
A rather short but very impressive CG commercial for Heavenly Sword: In Flash Video, Download In High-Def
Could this be its early work? (I have no idea): Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I watched my friend play the Demo. I must say I was impressed. Some parts were kind of dumb, but it's a hack and slash I would totally purchase if I had a ps3 (I generally hate Hack and Slash games). It's also a lot more fun than Resistance.

Though I think I was bored with Resistance because I played Bioshock right before it, lol.

Just a question, what's your opinion on the controls? There are reports of people saying how attacks and moves are poorly paced.

[Omega Amen]

Just a question, what's your opinion on the controls? There are reports of people saying how attacks and moves are poorly paced.

I find the fighting controls to be refreshing since it distinguishes itself by placing importance in attack animations.

In other words, Nariko will not respond to a button press when she has not almost completed her attack animation already in motion. Also, due to the Wuxia inspiration and her character background, Nariko's attack animations are slower. So, if someone were to button mash or press the buttons very quickly like in DMC, Nariko will not pull off a graceful combo, but instead attack in a rather awkward fashion. However, if the player is relaxed and attentive to Nariko's body movement, the awesome will start flowing out.

Ironically, this attentiveness to body animation in combat can be found in a few hardcore 3D one-on-one fighting games like Virtua Fighter. But some people will not like such deliberate pacing, especially when DMC and NG have established the pacing of this genre in gamers' minds for almost 7 years.

[Cognitive Gear]

One last note in my reply, I have never stated that Heavenly Sword: would appeal to everyone with a PS3, be game-of-the-year material, and/or have flawless game/combat design. In fact, I am honestly surprised that the press is expecting this to be a big seller. The genre does not have wide appeal in general.

Here is my theory:

Less gaming news -> Less site traffic -> unhappy advertisers -> less cash generated

Therefore, to prevent that:

Hype game with a sellable trait (in this case, similarities to God of War) -> Generate Hype -> Turn mediocre news into big news -> profit & retain job

The Playstation fanbase is huge. I imagine that not having any Playstation hype during the summer months would be fairly detrimental to their bottom line.

[Tenshi no Ai]

Well, the game's out and I got it for my guy who LOVES hack n' slash action games like God of War and Ninja Gaiden. I'm usually the ones that finds controls to combos confusing and rather hard (yet, haven't attempt to try any^^) so, I usually sit and watch and enjoy the story, while being bossy about save points and grabbing health^^

I have to say though: this is one of THE BEST games I have seen... Action looks great and by the sound of it, game play is great. You get to control Kai, the second character and shoot arrows several different ways, almost as a mini game because it's fun to see where you get to hit them^^ Physics are great, especially the reaction of guys getting hit by arrows, alot more freedom with throwing stuff around etc. Story is great, graphics are AMAZING, of course, but I think the 2 things that are the best of all, that someone like me can sit and enjoy just by watching, is the characters. Don't think I've EVER seen a game with such well-played characters and amazing voice talents. Lots of games have had amazing character and voice talent, but just the unique characters just give it that extra touch^^

All in all, the game only got mediocre rating from IGN etc, but that is ONE person's opinion. Although I do not know how far the demo lets you play, I DO know that things progress and get better. Heck, I wanna know what happens and watch more of it. I love Kai! Strange, traumatic Kai, but such an amazing character^^

Honestly, if anyone is interesting in the least about picking it up, PLEASE do so. I don't think you'll be disappointed^^

Oh, and I know many make it seem like a "God of War, but with a girl" but the only real similarity is a slashing sword with chains... nothing more :/

[Omega Amen]

I have played through the whole game last night. I will say something that actually surprised me a bit... I smiled a lot, and even giggled a bit at some parts.

I think this is the first game in both the beat-em-up and one-on-one fighting genres that genuinely made me smile and... put me in a fun-loving mood, which is something I do not normally do when I play the other games in this genre. It just... feels so much... fun. This is not a reaction I expected when I bought the game.

I will play through the game in Hell Mode for the harder difficulty to test out the combat system's design for my review of this game for CAA. Also, personally, I am going to try to earn all three glyph medals for each level in the game. That actually is not easy to do in several levels.

I want to emphasize what Tenshi no Ai just posted. The claims of this title just being a God of War clone is almost shameful. The only substantive similarities are that the Heavenly Sword does have chains (which are not actually used that often due to the combat system design), the story is good for this genre, and there are Quick Time Events (button pressing sequences). That's it. Everything else is very different, and I think it is rather shallow and lazy of journalists to keep making this comparison.

There is room for some improvement and polish for this franchise, and I do not think its design ideas have been pushed to their fullest potential (stay tuned for review on those details). That being said, this is a very solid and fun game.

Oh yeah, one last note. There is one character in the game that completely stole the show: Kai. KAI IS AWESOME!!! She is one of the best video game characters I have ever seen.

Edit: Tenshi no Ai, I really suggest you try to play this game. Being a veteran in this genre, I do think the combat system is friendly to gamers who are not experienced in this genre since you do not have to know every combo to get through on normal difficulty. The last boss might be quite hard, but I think the game is accessible to a lot of people on the normal difficulty.

[Tenshi no Ai]

*points to new siggy* Kai is awsome, and yes, I like fireworks too^^

Yeah I should try and play it... it totally has re play value to it^^ Honestly though with those reviews on IGN etc, I don't know WHAT their tastes are, saying how hack n' slash isn't new and "boring". I mean, I know LOTS of people enjoy that gaming genre... I hate one critic to ruin everything because LOTS of people only listen to the reviews to make a decision :/ Maybe if it's fluent throughout reader reviews as well I can consider...

Yeah with you beating it already, I'm not surprised. These types of games are usually fairly short due to content and high intense action etc^^ We ended on the end of chapter 3, so I wouldn't expect many other chapters (2 more maybe for a total of 5?)

Still, there's something really special about this game^^ Quality in every aspect, I'd say.

[Omega Amen]

Yeah with you beating it already, I'm not surprised. These types of games are usually fairly short due to content and high intense action etc^^ We ended on the end of chapter 3, so I wouldn't expect many other chapters (2 more maybe for a total of 5?)

There are 6 chapters total, though the last chapter is only focused with stages of the final boss battle.

BTW, I consider Chapter 4 the best chapter in the whole game.

Still, there's something really special about this game^^ Quality in every aspect, I'd say.

It is clear that this game is a labor of love for the developers and it shows. It also really does take a lot of risks and puts new ideas in this genre. I guess that is also why it feels rough around the edges in some areas, but this does feel special in some way.

It is short, but I would compare it to short games like Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time or Ico. They are short but they leave a lasting impression, I think, and they leave you wanting more.