What Killed Star Trek Voyager?

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I think DS9 just took a while to figure out what it's purpose in existing was. Jumping from an Enterprise trekking around the stars to a space station sitting around the same place all the time is quite a leap, after all. It really wasn't until the whole Dominion thing picked up that it really found a solid direction (I think, at least). And yeah, all things considered, I think I enjoy DS9 as a whole the most. Next Gen has a number of better stand alone episodes, but I do like the epic scale of DS9's later seasons (not to mention the less utopian outlook. Sorry Gene)

[KhakiBlueSocks]

One of my favorite DS9 episodes was the one where the DS9 crew play the Vulcan crew in baseball and get beat.

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite"...I LOVE that episode! I especially love Worf's line when everyone's doing the whole "Hey, Batta, batta, batta, batta!" thing...Worf breaks out with "Death to the Opposition!" Priceless!!!

IMHO, I think "TNG" was the last true "Roddenberry" Star Trek. Granted, during the interviews, most of the crew talk about how they're particular season/series "...is a continuation of Gene Roddenberry's dream..." or something along those lines, but I think that, while the other seasons were great in their own rights (Though I've heard the contrary about "Enterprise") nobody can honestly say that their series would recieve Gene's unconditional approval. Just look at the movies...after the first one, Roddenberry had issues with each and every one--up to and including "Undiscovered Country".

It wasn't Troi...it was because when the stardrive section blew because of the Duras Sisters, the saucer couldn't move away fast enough and was actually pushed further into the planet's gravity well so an unrecoverable crash landing (per the TNG tech manual) was a foregone possibility.

I remember distinctly Riker making the order to engage the saucer's impluse engines and take the ship to full impulse once clear of the Stardrive section. The next scene cuts to an outside view of the saucer separating. Cut back inside the ship. Worf confirms separation complete ([color=red]Which I have an issue with--shouldn't TROI, who's flying the saucer section of the ship monitor the process on her terminal so she knows when to blast outta there?!) and Troi says "Engaging impulse engines." Which only means one thing--SHE DIDN'T ENGAGE THE ENGINES WHEN RIKER ORDERED HER TO!![/color]

Man...I'm a geek!

[mitsuki lover]

I think with Enterprise the main problem I had was the fact that too many fans complained every time they brought in a familiar species like the Ferengi.Hey,this is
Sci Fi not history class.I mean they could have had Q on for all I cared and it would have been a ton more fun.

[Psycho Molos]

"Take Me Out to the Holosuite"...I LOVE that episode! I especially love Worf's line when everyone's doing the whole "Hey, Batta, batta, batta, batta!" thing...Worf breaks out with "Death to the Opposition!" Priceless!!!

IMHO, I think "TNG" was the last true "Roddenberry" Star Trek. Granted, during the interviews, most of the crew talk about how they're particular season/series "...is a continuation of Gene Roddenberry's dream..." or something along those lines, but I think that, while the other seasons were great in their own rights (Though I've heard the contrary about "Enterprise") nobody can honestly say that their series would recieve Gene's unconditional approval. Just look at the movies...after the first one, Roddenberry had issues with each and every one--up to and including "Undiscovered Country".


I remember distinctly Riker making the order to engage the saucer's impluse engines and take the ship to full impulse once clear of the Stardrive section. The next scene cuts to an outside view of the saucer separating. Cut back inside the ship. Worf confirms separation complete ([color=red]Which I have an issue with--shouldn't TROI, who's flying the saucer section of the ship monitor the process on her terminal so she knows when to blast outta there?!) and Troi says "Engaging impulse engines." Which only means one thing--SHE DIDN'T ENGAGE THE ENGINES WHEN RIKER ORDERED HER TO!![/color]

Man...I'm a geek!

even though Troi was at the conn...Worf was tactical...lol..HIS job to say they were clear or not.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I think with Enterprise the main problem I had was the fact that too many fans complained every time they brought in a familiar species like the Ferengi.Hey,this is
Sci Fi not history class.I mean they could have had Q on for all I cared and it would have been a ton more fun.

It wouldn't have been as much of an issue if the divergences from Star Trek's established history had resulted in better stories. As it was, however, Enterprise tended to be even more recycled than the previous franchises anyway. Thus, the "historical inaccuracies" just added insult to injury. Hence the added complaints.

[The Doctor]

My friend knew someone who worked on Voyager, and he told me that the reason why it sucked so much was because the guy Rick Berman picked to be Script Editor (and thereby the guy who drives the storyline throughout the series) was picked only because he had been working with Roddenberry for years on the Star Trek Franchise (I think my buddy said he was responsible for desiging the ships).

[mitsuki lover]

So let's blame it on the poor Script Editor.That is basically passing the buck really.
You might as well say it was the fault of Berman/Piller/Taylor since they created and produced the series and were thus responsible for hiring everyone else.Ultimately it always rests with the Creator(s)wheter or not a show is good or not.

[The Doctor]

In that case it was Berman's fault since he was the Executive Producer and Creator.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I don't know. I think the blame needs to be placed on the people DIRECTLY responsible for the specific scripts. The general concept of Voyager was quite original. It was the individual stories that either lived up to that promise or didn't. Yes, ALLOWING substandard stories to go forward makes one partially responsible, but the person who initially thought it was a good idea and wrote it is more guilty.

[mitsuki lover]

At least they did something to help us to understand the Borg better.Even the Borg Queen became less of a one dimensional villian when she is seen through the lens of episodes like DARK FRONTIER and UNIMATRIX ZERO.Certainly her one attempt to 'negotiate'with Janeway in UNIMATRIX ZERO showed that she could be as
machivellian as the best Klingon.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

True. I have to admit, it took me a while to get past how scaled down they had to make her appearances, what with it being a TV show and all (no dangling over the head while the spine squirms this time), but she's just such a good character!

[crossalchemist]

They actually covered the whole "why hasn't Harry been promoted" thing in an episode. He was really mad about it and Janeway explained it well and outlined it as such:

1) that their primary concern was to get home
2) promotions have to be reviewed by Starfleet to be valid and they didn't have contact with them until much later
3) What good would the promotion be? He wouldn't recieve any responsibility than he already has, there are no spare quarters to upgrade to (his roommate had already died, so he had the whole room to himself), and it's not like he'd get a pay raise (cuz they don't pay them anyway!).

I think the only person to actually recieve a promotion during the whole thing was Tuvok and I think that was after they made contact with Starfleet and was important for the plot of the episode somehow....Chakoteh (spelling???) and Torres don't count because they were merely assigned positions not actually given ranks.

Yes, I have seen every Voyager episode...twice. I'm a big fan of the show and it was far better than Next Generation and DS9 and that joke of a show Enterprise. And you have to tell me that you enjoyed the Captain Proton episodes!

[Blitzkrieg1701]

You'd better believe it!

I'm ashamed to say that I don't remember that explanation, though. Which episode was it?

[mitsuki lover]

I don't rememeber it either.All I remember is the one where Tom gets his
Lieutenancy back and Harry says that he didn't notice any little box at his work station.

btw:If you go and rewatch Course:Oblivion the key early on that this is NOT the real Voyager crew is that Tom hasn't lost his lieutenancy since this was set at the time when he had been demoted to Ensign.

As far as it goes I think my least favorite episode during the final seasons would be the one where Ichib and Q,Jr. get into trouble.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

Back on topic:

The one thing that kinda irked me about Voyager was the numerous and unexplained trips through time! I swear, there must have been at least three episodes per season that had SOMETHING to do with time!

Not griping on all of the episodes, mind you--my personal favorite was Future's End, when we see the cast of Voyager dress in 90's clothes...expecially Chakotay's suit with a tee shirt.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Just another example of plot recycling.

Writer 1: I've got it! How about through time for some reason!!!
Writer 2: That's GREAT!
Writer 3: Well, we worked all night, but it was worth it!

[mitsuki lover]

Although we would have been robbed of that really cool scene in Relativity when the ping pong ball freezes in mid-air.

[mitsuki lover]

IMHO the one thing that saved an episode like Body And Soul was Jeri Ryan's comic timing playing the Doctor in Seven's skin.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Dude, it's kind of unfair that Jeri Ryan got cast as Seven. She's a MUCH better actress than most episodes allow her to show. "Infinite Regress" is another prefect example of what she could do when the writers gave her a chance.

[mitsuki lover]

The only reason she got to play Seven in the first place is that TPTB and Jennifer Lien both came to the conclusion that at the end of three years there wasn't much
that they could do to further Kes' character.I mean they kind of painted themselves into a corner with her character because of the 10 year life span.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Man... Can you imagine having to get into all that old-Ocampa every day?

[KhakiBlueSocks]

Man... Can you imagine having to get into all that old-Ocampa every day?

I really didn't have any gripes with Kes, other than her hair when she aged. When she first came on board, she had this cute little bob haircut. Then, when she got older, her hair just became so...1950's ish. Big and poufy.

Speaking of hair, I think I speak for the majority of us when I say the one thing that killed Star Trek: Voyager was...THE JANEWAY BUN!!! (Sorry, I get crazy late at night!)

[mitsuki lover]

But it got better and didn't threaten to take over the Delta Quadrant in later seasons.

Seriously though the Janeway Bun is probably the most infamous piece of
hairdo in ST history except for the time Sisko had a vision of 'A Man Called
Hawke' and decided to go the shaved route(though to be serious I think that was because Avery Brooks was probably working on a Spencer:For Hire
reunion at the same time).

Maybe Janeway should have shaved her head and Sisko have th bun?

[KhakiBlueSocks]

Maybe Janeway should have shaved her head and Sisko have th bun?

Umm...I think not! My favorite Sisko moment was during the episode, "In the Pale Moonlight." And I would find it quite distracting, yet rather hillarious, to see Sisko go through his rant with a perfectly styled bun!

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I'm just glad Janeway never grew a goatee.

[mitsuki lover]

No Tuvok is the one who should have grown the goatee.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Only if it was the evil, alternate dimension Tuvok

(what kills that joke is that a DS9 episode actually showed an alternate universe Tuvok, and he was neither evil nor goatee'd)

[mitsuki lover]

According to the Wold Newton Universe Star Trek Timeline there are about
three or four versions of the Mirror Universe.So there are about three or four versions of Mirror Tuvok.

This includes versions in the comics and novels as well as what is seen on tv.

btw:It's interesting to note that the Romulan/Earth War is the divergent point.
In 'Our' aka the 'Real' Trekverse we beat back the Romulans BEFORE they
got to Earth,but in the others Earth is conquered.

This is of course based on the supposition that the 'Real' Trekverse,the one with the Federation would be our own.It is highly as likely that one of the
Mirror Universes could in fact turn out to be 'Ours'.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

Oh, I think we all know that the only "REAL" Star Trek universe is the one I'm creating for my ultra mega ingenious fan fiction crossover with Babylon 5

[mitsuki lover]

btw:The Xindi attack on Earth may explain why Earth was so unprepared for the Romulan War,at least in the Mirror Universes.Possibly in those universes
Archer was unable to get the good will of the majority of the Xindi or the
Vulcan High Command was successful in relieving him of command of
Enterprise and his successor was unsuccessful in negotiating with the Xindi.
In any case it appears that the Xindi might be the crux on why Earth in
'OUR' universe was able to spend much of the Earth/Romulan War in Deep Space while in the Mirror Universes it was fought in our solar system.