Focus on the Family

The real heart of CAA; discuss specific series, issues, and things related to anime here.

Focus on the Family

Postby Usso-M » Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:39 pm

Has anyone heard of Focus on the Family? It's a great site, and I have it marked as my home page, but I think sometimes they can be a bit too conservative. Now, don't get mad, I know that many conservative ideals are also Christian Ideals, and I'm a conservative myself. But they take the stance of the- shall we say- "MAA" from the play ^^'. I was thinking of writing a letter to them through thier teenager department, and I was wondering if you guys could give me some good points for them to consider. The ones I have are:

For every gory, violent anime, there's a good one that has postive values (Mabye a little of a strech.....)

It's a great way to spread the word, considering that a lot of anime fans are atheist liberals (belive me, I'm a member of like 10 different MBs, and I'm referrring to US anime fans)

Do you think I should go through with this? If so, please support me with your ideas. I'd be sure to mention CAA for sure!

Thanks a lot

P.S Here are some links to what I'm talking about - Plugged In is great to tell you about what's ina movie, but I wasn't to happy when they called Spirited Away an "acid trip" :mutter: http://www.pluggedinonline.com/movies/movies/a0000403.cfm

http://www.pluggedinonline.com/movies/movies/a0001333.cfm
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:25 pm

I've been there a couple of times.

If I remember right, I enjoyed their asessment of Lord of the Rings, in articles about the movies and the books - upholding the Christian values and such in Tolkien's writing, dispelling the idea that they are "pagan" books. I'm a fantasy lover and an aspiring fantasy writer - and there's quite a bit of misunderstanding and fear among many Christians over fantasy lit. It's like anime that way... people in general think either "it's for kids" or "it's evil".

I, however, did not like how they dissed "The X-Files". I understand why parents wouldn't want their kids (and why some really overprotective parents wouldn't want their teenagers) to watch it, but "The X-Files", personally, was one of my favorite shows. It's certainly not a Christian show, but it's not as bad as they made it out to be.
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Postby deleria » Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:27 pm

You know, I don't entirely disagree with what they said in this article (http://www.pluggedinonline.com/movies/movies/a0000403.cfm). Especially this part:

The roots of anime are grounded in "manga," the Japanese equivalent of the American comic strip or funny pages. The art form has grown to include comic books, video games, TV, web pages and movies. Remember television's Speed Racer and Kimba the White Lion? Both are examples of early anime. But anime has come of age in the '90s and lost most--if not all--of that innocence.

Modern anime frequently contains scenes with full nudity. Even products targeted at preteen audiences include casual nudity and, sometimes, gay and lesbian themes. Many anime movies also feature graphic brutality, ferocious language and intense depictions of the occult. This callous exploitation of sex, violence, profanity and spiritual counterfeits raises huge red flags over the entire genre.

While not all anime contains these problems, extreme caution should be exerted in every encounter. Much of this animated material has not been rated. Therefore, when renting a video or buying a comic book, no easy way exists to establish whether or not the animation is pornographic. It is up to parents to be aware of anime's inherent dangers, and involved in their teen's media choices.


See, that's not an untrue statement. It's certainly not true about every anime title (which they admit), but it's true enough that parents ought to be aware of such things if their kids are into anime. Of course, that comes with being an involved parent and Focus on the Family/Plugged In are meant to be tools for parents. Unfortunately, they seem to be basing their opinion of anime on only a handful of older anime titles (Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Project A-ko, Street Fighter, Sailor Moon, Bubblegum Crisis). Personally, I’d only recommend Akira and Ghost in the Shell and I’d only recommend those two titles to adults.

If you decide to write to Focus on the Family regarding anime, I'd simply point them in the direction of anime titles with a good theme. We all know they exist. Unfortunately, they're still going to find fault with even "good themed" anime (like Rurouni Kenshin) because of the violence, etc., so be prepared for that. Even so, at least they would be aware that such titles do exist.

It seems to me that Focus on the Family is mainly saying, "Parents, don’t be fooled. Just because this is animated doesn’t mean it’s safe for kids to watch." To us, that’s a no-brainer. We know that, but does the average parent?

Anyway, if you decide to write, I’d recommend that they take a look at/review Grave of the Fireflies. I’d be interested to see what they think of that.
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Postby Michael » Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:43 pm

X-Files rules. How dare they diss it! I wonder how many of them actually watch any anime or X-Files.

Nevermind. Reading through those articals, I think they really want to protect kids. which is fine, but they end up dissing what we like. I do agree however, that most anime is for more mature audiences. I also found it interisting that they didn't mention hentai.

Anybody heard of 'Sentai'? It's anime for really little kids. The opposite of hentai basically.
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Postby Ashley » Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:27 pm

If you do decide to write Focus on the Family, I'd love a copy of the letter and their response to you. I wouldn't say "for EVERY bad title there's a good one", because certainly that's not true. But you can mention things like Fruits Basket that are NOT for little kids but have very encouraging themes in them. You're also welcome to draw from our mission statement/faq section in helping to explain yourself.
As someone mentioned earlier, the biggest issue is parents/Christians (or most often, Christian parents) thinking in 2 extremes: little kids and nasty adult. We need to show there is a balance that can be sought, and moreso, that this can be used as a ministry outreach. I'm really interested in how this turns out for you. Let me know if you'd like someone to proof/edit it for you; I'd be happy to.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:27 pm

I am, of course, only speaking for myself, so I can't decide for anyone here what gets done, but this is my feeling on this issue:

I would hope that FotF did not have their attention drawn here... The writers on plugged in (despite the very out of character good review of "Two Towers") are generally of the idea that to portray violence in a movie is sinfull. It's not "christian" to watch and is harmfull to us. Even something such as grave of the fireflies wouldn't be safe under their scrutinous and very, um, shall we say sheltered views on entertainment... On the other end, it seems that their musical review staff are much more understanding and a little more objective. But their Movie/TV staff are very strict on a lot of things such as violence and fantasy, and honestly point out every little thing real or imagined that could be wrong with a movie or TV show, and I haven't found them to be very realistic... Basically, if it's not appropriate for a 4 year old it's not appropiriate (Several movies I've loved they said "There is nothing redeeming" to... or, in the case of "Frequency", that the violence and language overrode the positive message that took center stage from begining to end)

I have read what their review of "anime" and the very fact they did that as one big conglomerated thing proves that they are not going to be objective about it... They, like many against anime, cannot get it through their heads that not all anime are made by the same people... They just see that there are some bad ones and think that Japanese entertainment is all evil.

Their review of Lord of the Rings can't be taken as the norm for them, that was definately out of character... If we draw attention to this site, or get their focus back on anime it could cause a lot of problems for those of us who go to churches where angry mothers use FotF as their whining guide.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:34 pm

PluggedIn wrote:Spirited Away is equal parts visual masterpiece, nightmare-inducing fable and slickly packaged pantheism.


This is one of the things I'm talking about... Slickly packaged pantheism? Miyazaki doesn't believe in all of those things, he's an atheist! He treats it like mythology, and nothing more. But an enjoyment of mythology (unless it's VIA CS Lewis or Tolkien) is not acceptable to FotF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby Stephen » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:34 pm

They reviewed the band Tool...lead singer Maynard Keenan a self proclaimed dark priest...they called there CD Lateralious spiritualy neutral...once I saw that I decided that I would rather stick my finger in a light socket then read there thoughts. My personal 2 cents.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:46 pm

Wow... Yeah, I forgot that they said "Lifehouse doesn't have the answers but they are looking in the right place" even though Jason Wade is a sunday school teacher and a missionary's kid. He most definately has the answers. And he is not so ambiguous as Creed. The only reason his lyrics don't directly identify God is because of the record company he's under (think "evil RIAA") won't let him... Just like POD.

Oh, and one more big nasty quote for their feelings towards "anime" They said they were reviewing "Ghost in the Shell" which they labeled as "not rated" which is a bit of misinformation. All anime to receive theatrical release got ratings. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy bebop, Perfect Blue... All R. Mononoke is PG-13. Spirited Away is PG. They did receive ratings, but see the thing is this wasn't just a review of GitS. They reviewed ALL ANIME in this one little review (and their examples of all anime were GitS, Akira, and Project A-ko... Wow, they were SO exaustive! (sarcasm)) this is sickening... I got sick from reading that ignorant and bigoted "review."

PluggedIn wrote:Never think of anime as just cartoons. In reality, many of these morally corrupt products constitute one of America's most dangerous entertainment imports.


Hmm... Not starting off on a bit of a generalization, are we?

The way FotF justifies refusal to find out what is actually true is by going under the great american loophole of "protecting the children"

"Protecting the Children" almost got video games banned, and makes life very hard for many Christian on-fire-for-God anime fans... Often to the point of convincing them through harassment and not the Holy Spirit to restrict themselves from watching anime... And "protecting the children" is something you just can't argue with. If you argue with it, you must be HARMING the children. Grr...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:59 pm

oops... double post... how'd that happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby MillyFan » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:01 am

Bobtheduck, you've made some quite wonderful posts, and I think you've taken the words right out of my mouth. :) I have no more to say but that I believe FOTF to be rather hypocritical and to be making blanket judgments on all anime and all anime fans. ^sigh^
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:20 am

Not really on topic, but something funny I found...

I went to Anime Expo this year. It was my first ever anime con (and hopefully not my last). A Kenneth Copeland convention was going on at the same time at the Aniehiem Convention Center, in neighboring rooms.

I know some of those poor Kenneth Copeland people were freaked out by the cosplayers. I was lucky... I had the chance to talk to people about anime... like, on my way to the Center the second day, I met a black lady who was headed to the Kenneth Copeland thing...she saw me in my Vash outfit and asked me about it. I gave her a brief explaination of anime, and of the character I was playing, and I went "Hey, I'm a Christian, too! That's great! Right on for the Lord!" or something to that effect. :grin:

Something funny that happened.. and this was probably done by one of the freaked out people... I was in the Aritst's Alley at the time and a Wolfwood cosplayer was there. He leaned his cross up against a pillar... some dude from the Copeland convention came up and slipped a preaching tract in between the belts on his cross and walked way. The Wolfwood cosplayer just... couldn't believe it. He was like... "the audacity!"
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Postby MillyFan » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:26 am

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh, that's soooo funny. LOL!
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Postby Usso-M » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:20 am

Yeah, FOTF DOES have it's pros and cons. I'll defentiely mention above-mentioned anime to them, and that if teenagers and young adults (i.e us) watch what we watch, it can be a great enterntainment medium. I'm already starting on my rough draft ^^;
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Postby MasterDias » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:03 am

Michael wrote:Anybody heard of 'Sentai'? It's anime for really little kids. The opposite of hentai basically.


Sentai? Isn't sentai a term refering to color-coded costumed superheroes like Power Rangers?

However, I do need to give them a big thumbs up for doing Adventures in Odyssey. It's their radio drama that's been running for about 15 years now. The writing on the show could run circles around most TV sit-coms, and probably all modern kids TV shows. They've done over 500 shows, and it's a safe bet to say that about 60% of those are fantastic (20% average, and the other 20% we won't talk about). Besides at least one of the writers is a fan of movies like Mononoke and Spirited Away.


Ah, yes. Adventures in Odyssey. I do recomend the show. It's probably the best Christian family-oriented show available. The writing is very well done and the actors put real heart into playing the characters. It even has some intrigue and violence in a few of its story arcs and a very evil villian, something that's somewhat unusual for an overtly Christian program.
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Postby Michael » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:22 am

<Sentai? Isn't sentai a term refering to color-coded costumed superheroes like Power Rangers?>

That may be. I only heard the term once.
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:00 pm

I have some suggestions for more innocent animes that kids and teenagers can watch with little to no objection. I will list possible objectionble material in each, but these can be considered "good" titles.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pokemon (American televised version). My "anime gateway drug" personally... :sweat: I've heard that the original Japanese version has Satoshi (Ash) cussing a lot, but the American dub does not, and the companies that televise it are very strict on their edits of possible objectionable material (much to the annoyance of some older pokemon fans, but...even so, those things weren't too bad). Pokemon was made for a mainstream audience in Japan, from teens to little kids. Kids are captivated by the cute little animal-creatures in it, and it has some good values to take away. Ash Ketchum displays a great drive to reach his goals and great courage in dire situations. He has a great love for his pokemon, and the series, in that way, teaches kindness to animals. The villains in the series, Team Rocket, are bumbling at best, and are there mainly for comic relief. It's very fun, and the series teaches the value of reaching for your dreams.


Haibane Renmei. I have only the first DVD of this series thus far, but I have read detailed episode summaries online for all of the episodes. I'd recommend this for an older audience because it is rather sad in many places, and may be overly upsetting to young children. The series has a very wistful tone. It is a beautiful fantasy about angelic-like beings who are born into a mysterious walled town where they live alongside humans. No one is allowed to leave the town, and communication with the outside is done through a mysterious group, the Haibane Renmei, which has the purpose of protecting the Haibane (the angelic beings). It is a story of self-discovery, surpassing love (friend kind), and of redemption. Possible objectionable material: Use of traditonal angel symbolism (wings and halos) on creatures that are not technically angels (only if you are really, really uptight about such things, and hey, even in the Bible not all angels had halos and wings, - that stuff was mainly invented by artists in later periods, so why be uptight?), one of the characters does mild cussing at some points, and the scene where Rakka gets her wings is a bit bloody (but it winds up being sweet because Rekki stays up all night cleaning Rakka's wings for her and taking care of her :) ).


You're Under Arrest! (OVAs). I haven't watched this series in a while. It's 4 episodes, but... I was struck by its innocence. (my boyfriend tells me that the movie is a little violent at one point, but here, I am talking of the OVAs). This four part series is about a pair of policewomen in Bokutoo Precint (I believe in the city of Tokyo). It is very hard to fit into any particular category, though it probably most fits into "action/comedy". It is a very cute story about the friendship of these two women police partners. There is a little romance thrown in between one of the women and a big, proud, goofy policeman a the station. Though these policewomen carry guns, they never use them: Instead, they wind up dealing with dangerous traffic violaters - people speeding down the highways... there's stuff in here that should please fans of "The Fast and the Furious" in the way of car chases. (Not in a violent way, though, just in the excitement of the chase and fast cars! Vroom!) One of the police partners has a thing for souped up cars and motorcyles. :) It's innocent, yet exciting. When watching it, I was thinking of just how diffrent it is from American police dramas. The typical American police drama today deals with murders and drug rings and all that kind of scary stuff. NOTHING of that in You're Under Arrest! Watching it made me feel like "Wow, Tokyo must be a very safe city!" The episodes to be exicting without violence. Oh, and there's this cute cat in the series! I love Chibi! I have a thing for realistically drawn animals in anime, and Chibi is drawn so well! In the second episode, she has kittens! Possible Objectionable Material: Mild cussing, a panty-shot, and one of the policewomen saying short prayers for good luck at a Bhuddist shrine.

Azumanga Daioh! (for teenagers only). This series is an adorable spaztic comedy about a group of high school girls in Japan. It is about their friendship and about their adventures in that weird time of life known as high school. One of the girls is a 10 year old genius tranfer student. This series has lots of random weird humor and is extremely hilarious. It really is impossible not to be happy when watching it! It' just so goofy! It manages to be touching, even, at some points - in dealing with the girls thinking about their futures, being nostalgic over childhood, and Sakaki's wanting but not being able to have a pet cat. (I got stupidly teary eyed for her at some points, because I ADORE cats, and could imagine the longing she feelst I felt so sorry for her!.. but her dealings with cats are mainly very funny). Objectionble Material: Mild cussing (in the fansub I saw, I don't know how the official will be), and some mild sexual humor (One of the teachers is a man who took the job because he likes looking at high school girls in their short shorts), an unreciprocated homosexual crush (VERY MILD. A girl character, Kaorin, has a crush on Sakaki. This is funny because Sakaki doesn't even know she exists! Sakaki is tiotally unaware of this crush and genreally ignores Kaorin. Kaorin's little fantasies about Sakaki, furthemore, never go beyond wanting to dance with her, or being rescued from bandits by her. There's not even kissing or anything like that.) There is also a scene (in a dream) where there is a brief mention about a ghost the girls contacted with a Japanese game or something, but I'm not sure if that will be in the official, and it wasn't shown, it was a passing mention that happened in a dream. Chiyo-chan's "father" was asking how the ghost was doing or something. I'm not even sure what was said or if the fansub was completely correct. It was just a passing mention, anyway.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:07 pm

You have a rough draft? Good. Make sure you're polite with it, yet still state your point. But I probably don't need to tell you that.

Be careful with anything attacking Conservative Christianity (with a capitol letter: I mean what our country has made of this). Your letter might not get printed, and it probably wouldn't help anything.

If anything, I'd say the biggest point to stress is that they are overgeneralizing. One cannot dismiss all anime in one issue more than they can dismiss every book, every movie, etc. That's what I believe the biggest issue really is.

And if you'd like, you could post it here so we could see it. That could be very interesting.
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Postby Usso-M » Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:34 pm

Okay guys, here goes, my rough rough draft of my letter, which will be sent to Breakway's Live Voltage section (i.e Teen Boys--> Comments on Media)

*ahem, ahem*

Hello Breakway,

I am a 14 year old Christian Teenager who has visited your site many times before. I especailly like to visit Plugged In, because I watch a lot of movie and TV shows. I find your reviews handy to tell me excatly what to expect in a feature. I agree with the staff at FOTF that if a program corrupts our mind, the God wouldn't want us watching it.

However, God also would like us to have an open mind, don’t you think. Not too open, allowing the Devil to seep in, but not to over generalize and give kids and adults a wrong idea about something. Your site is really helpful for parents and their children as a guide to what the entertainment community throws at us.

However, I am writing to you about an art medium known as anime. You’ve done several reports on anime, and while I think they’re good about telling parents what’s out there, it seems about 90% negative. There are good things about anime too, or more specifically, good programs. Anime isn’t a genre, it’s an art form.

Just like movies have positive things about them, and maybe even a moral or lesson or two, anime can remind us of how God wants us to act, and perhaps teach us a lesson. I bet a show or two can even be linked to a bible passage! [This part sounds reaaaaaaaaly corny, doesn't it}


No anime show or movie is perfect. But I’m willing to sit through some violence and profanity if a show is entertaining and has a positive message. Now, don’t take what I just said the wrong way. If a show has over 50 profanities, with ton of nudity and blood gushing violence, I probably wouldn’t want to see it. But isn’t that in real life? As we get older, aren’t we mature enough to handle it in small amounts, as long as it’s not gratuitous or obscene?

*insert good animes here, which I haven’t gotten to yet*

More current anime are becoming cleaner, or it would appear so. It seems like several of titles you reviewed are older titles, released by American companies of course. Back in the early 90’s, companies were trying to appeal to a more select, mature audience. Now that anime has blossomed in popularity, a much much wider range of anime is available- ones that I can watch with my mom (Master Keaton) or my little sister (Junkers come here, Sherlock Hound, etc.).


That’s all I’ve done so far. Good? Comments? Feel free to quote a part of my letter and, like, criticize it to your hearts content ^^;.

Thanks

P.S I WILL add stuff about christian anime fans and the CAA later on. Don't worry!
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:19 pm

I won't bother dealing with minor errors at the moment. This is naught but a rough draft, and the focus is ideas, not grammar

I like what is there. Live Voltage runs things such as that. You are definitely respectful, and this is good, as it is evident you are not attacking.

This is Breakaway, and it's much less Conservative than the rest of Focus on the Family. So there's less issue with that. But I think there are some anime that might even have more Christian elements than ultra-Conservative christians. I'm thinking of Trigun, and the very strong message it makes about killing. Contrast that with what some people were saying after 9/11 and you'll see what I mean.

Now, I certainly wouldn't suggest writing something like that. But Trigun would be a good show to mention.
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Postby MillyFan » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:38 pm

While I agree with your post for the most part, I disagree with the last part heavily. The sexual humor in episode 6, the fanservice in episode 18, and Wolfwood would all be things that might get FOTF Conservatives REALLY mad.

I can tell you because I live in close aquaintance with some of these people (going to a Southern Baptist church and all, despite being personally nondenominational moderate), and I've had one friend (oddly enough an anime fan) tell me that Trigun was trash and porn.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:48 pm

I agree with Millyfan, and would point out that I wouldn't suggest Trigun as a Christian anime. But I would suggest speaking of the entire not killing people element. Even in Chronicles of Narnia the enemies are slaughtered (of course, we really don't want to get into Lewis's philosophy). Just to say (in a more refined manner): "this is a very redeemable element. It can't be all bad."

But it's your call.

And trust me, I know Conservatives. There are a lot in Kansas, being an overwhelmingly Republican state. Of course, I refer to Conservative Christianity, but often people seemed to lean the same way in both.
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Postby MillyFan » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:56 pm

Agreed, on the not killing element-that is what I agreed with your post on, seriously :)
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Postby Usso-M » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:18 pm

Hmm..good points, you guys. Another thing I get mad about is, that if you look closely, some articles are intertwined in the family.org website. By looking at these, it seems FOTF wnats parents to prohibit thier teens from watching anime....sad.

I'm going to mention Haibane Renmei, Patlabor, Miyazaki Films (although they could nit-pick the witch-ness in Kiki's Delivery Service and *gasp* New Age Subliminal Messages in Castle in the Sky, I'm praying that they won't be THAT close-minded.) Yeesh
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Postby madphilb » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:30 pm

Haibane Shadsie wrote:Pokemon (American televised version). My "anime gateway drug" personally...


You've obviously missed things like Dr. Brown's article on why Pokemon is evil (satanic evil)... I never did finish putting together the article ripping his apart, no loss really. Read like many of the old D&D is evil (yes, we've covered this before in several threads), full of half-truths and miss-information.

FoF did pick up on one "joke" that Dr. Brown addressed as why it's an evil thing... the Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam chain (apologies for spelling errors).

Many of the articles I read years ago when I researched it (and found how great a show Pokemon was) that FoF did didn't have much bad to say about it, but they did say that kids money might be better spent on things other than the card game (this was when it was really big).


The villains in the series, Team Rocket, are bumbling at best, and are there mainly for comic relief. It's very fun, and the series teaches the value of reaching for your dreams.


Quite a few other things are in there, including taking personal responsibility for your failures/messes, respecting your elders, helping those in need, etc. Pokemon is packed with virtues that would make almost anyone proud.


I think you could add Voices of a Distance Star to that list.... mild violence (or am I too liberal with that?) and I belive a single cuss word in the dubed version (which wasn't in the subed version, which is much better anyway).

Angelic layer might be a good one to add to the list, I'm planning on picking up the 1st DVD Tuesday when it's released... I hope they don't "ruin" it, the Manga is great.


The funny thing about all this is, that the subject of what's acceptable is a bit grey, it falls in the lap of the user for the most part, and often the individual will controdict themselves... Take a friend of mine, much of what I enjoy for entertainment she would label as "junk," stuff that is out of bounds, yet they have a copy of Jurassic Park 3 and her favoriate show is CSI which has some of the worst visuals for gore and what-not as well as a ton of subject matter that would make most of the Anime fans on this forum blush! (doesn't matter who get's killed, they're usually mopping up fluids from someone having sex somewhere! :sweat: )

I personally think it's a good idea to let them know that there are things out there with redeaming value to them... be interesting to see how they've rated some movies.... maybe if I have more time later...

PHIL
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Postby MillyFan » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:43 pm

madphilb wrote:The funny thing about all this is, that the subject of what's acceptable is a bit grey, it falls in the lap of the user for the most part, and often the individual will controdict themselves... Take a friend of mine, much of what I enjoy for entertainment she would label as "junk," stuff that is out of bounds, yet they have a copy of Jurassic Park 3 and her favoriate show is CSI which has some of the worst visuals for gore and what-not as well as a ton of subject matter that would make most of the Anime fans on this forum blush! (doesn't matter who get's killed, they're usually mopping up fluids from someone having sex somewhere! :sweat: )

PHIL



Indeed, LOL!!! I live in a house full of CSI fans, I'm the only one who isn't, and the hypocrisy annoys me sometimes. . .that if I were caught watching Cowboy Bebop, there would be an argument and I'd be considered to be doing something bad. . .yet CSI is often equivalent or in some cases worse. :stressed:
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Postby andyroo » Sat Oct 11, 2003 5:24 pm

Ah, the things we're used to. Most Christians have become far too acceptant of secularism in entertainment (and in everything else, IMO) and when they come accross some foreign material that may be heavily influenced by something different they usually freak out and do everything possible to get the "change" out. Maybe it will do some good explaining a little on the asian culture and religions also. My big point here is the "different" aspect as humans are not apt to change and are quite resistant to it.
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Postby Haibane Shadsie » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:04 pm

*Wants to bop MillyFan's friend* Tie her to a chair and make her watch Neon Genesis Evangelion or Hellsing! Gah! I think she'll have a diffrent attitude about Trigun then! (By the way, I like both of those series, I'm not trashing NGE or Hellsing... I like them, it's just, some of the stuff in them is not to everyone's liking).

Yeah, in my suggestions, I would have said Trigun, except for Wolfwood. I think many Christians would have problems with Wolfwood being the cross-toting "man of God" with... guns in his cross. He cusses, smokes, drinks, and kills people - not a model priest! There is tremendous good in Trigun, and after watching it, I am more pacifistic and loving of life than I used to be. (Well, I liked such things before I watched it, but it's even more with me now after). The many, many good things in the anime outweigh the few bad things, but... these folks at Focus on the Family would probably have BIG problems with Wolfwood.

Yeah... CSI. My mom watches that, and Law and Order. I'm not sure about my mom's spiritual state, though. I'm the only one in the family who goes to church, (Southern Baptist church), with the exception of my dad, who is currently living on my parents' retirement property in the mountains and has recently gotten into Mormonism (which scares me!). The worst I suffer from family as far as my anime watching is my mom not wanting me to spend my money on "that weird stuff" and people thinking I'm weird - but my mom thinks the same way about many fantasy and sci-fi things, movies and literature... just that it's werid, hard to understand, and she cannot get into it. But, yeah... lots of American live action shows are worse in the gore and sex factor than many animes.

As I said about "You're Under Arrest!" I was struck by it because it's a police story, but there's no drug rings, prostitution, or murder investiagations... the worst they deal with is traffic incidents. It is VERY unlike American police shows.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:31 pm

MasterDias wrote:Ah, yes. Adventures in Odyssey. I do recomend the show. It's probably the best Christian family-oriented show available. The writing is very well done and the actors put real heart into playing the characters. It even has some intrigue and violence in a few of its story arcs and a very evil villian, something that's somewhat unusual for an overtly Christian program.
Which one of the writers is an anime fan?


Due to the variety of writers in AIO, it can either be a beacon of light or a direct example of the rediculous nature of FotF... I am a big AIO fan, and my favorite story arc is the second battle for "Whit's End" with Blackard and that Lawyer guy. It was shockingly open about a few issues (though those of a sexual matter are never even touched in episodes I've listened to, which is not true about it's neighboring show on the same station) and actually, you know, had a plot. Most of the show is simple little "don't lie, don't steal, don't talk back to your parents" but every once and a while, there were Gems like that.

My favorite character is Eugene... He went through some very real issues and the episode about the death program on the Imagination station was one of the most powerfull things I'd ever heard in Christian fiction, and the fact that it came from FotF was the most shocking of all!

Of course, even in AIO blanket statements occur... (an episode about Fantasy Roleplaying Games, of the D&D variety not like Final Fantasy, which is hillarious because one of their actresses, the woman who plays Connie, also did a voice in the D&D cartoon! Hehehe) and very ignorant outlooks (basic statement: MOST LIKELY video games could never have positive effects "We just don't know if children can learn while being distracted by flashing lights and sounds" not an exact quote, but close (as close as I can get by memory)) but the show is better than all but one Christian movie I've ever seen (that one being "To End All Wars") and, well, its an example of something really good coming out of a not so good source...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:50 pm

Usso-M wrote:I agree with the staff at FOTF that if a program corrupts our mind, the God wouldn't want us watching it.


Watching a crystal lewis concert may corrupt some people's minds... And (ok, this is going to kill me to say this) watching eva may not corrupt some people's minds... Actually, more to the point "It is not the things we take into our bodies that make them unclean, but it is what is in our hearts already" and our hearts take what we take in and make us unclean (yeah, I know this verse was talking about FOOD and not entertainment, but I think it applies to entertainment as well.)

It really matter's what we can handle... If watching CB makes you sin, well... Simple answer really, don't watch it... I'm having to cut out a lot of my favorite shows right now because it's dragging me down... That doesn't mean that my neighbor will be sinning by watching the same shows, but if I am, I need to stop... That is what FotF never identifies...


However, God also would like us to have an open mind, don’t you think. Not too open, allowing the Devil to seep in, but not to over generalize and give kids and adults a wrong idea about something. Your site is really helpful for parents and their children as a guide to what the entertainment community throws at us.

However, I am writing to you about an art medium known as anime. You’ve done several reports on anime, and while I think they’re good about telling parents what’s out there, it seems about 90% negative. There are good things about anime too, or more specifically, good programs. Anime isn’t a genre, it’s an art form.

Just like movies have positive things about them, and maybe even a moral or lesson or two, anime can remind us of how God wants us to act, and perhaps teach us a lesson. I bet a show or two can even be linked to a bible passage! [This part sounds reaaaaaaaaly corny, doesn't it}


No anime show or movie is perfect. But I’m willing to sit through some violence and profanity if a show is entertaining and has a positive message. Now, don’t take what I just said the wrong way.


Trust me, they most likely will... Their view is that the message gets diluted by the violence and language, and therefore made not worthwile in most cases (as I said, Two Towers being one of the few exceptions) And, aside from the vioence and language is their view on fantasy (with the very strange exceptions of CS Lewis and Tolkien)

By the way, the "Open mind" terminology is oft used by very liberal politicians and people opposed to Christianity as the only way to heaven (Jesus as the only way to heaven.) "Open Minded" has too much of a negative stigma attatched to it, and that wording will cause a lot of problems... I think really what God wants is for us to truely live how the bible mandates and not how our culture or our heritige or our father's uncle's cousin's view on parts of what the bible said, but mostly european culture that metamorphosised into american culture would mandate... And that is not as easy to state in simple terms as the very dangerous terminology of "Open Minded"

If a show has over 50 profanities, with ton of nudity and blood gushing violence, I probably wouldn’t want to see it. But isn’t that in real life? As we get older, aren’t we mature enough to handle it in small amounts, as long as it’s not gratuitous or obscene?


considering their history, this statement gave them much room to tear down what you said, that you're just being influenced by the "evil anime" or those "pornographic Japanese cartoons."

Also, they have heard the reality argument before and it doesn't phase them... I think a good look at the book of judges may change their minds on the violence issue, but they seem to believe there is a difference between something written and something displayed...

*insert good animes here, which I haven’t gotten to yet*


Grave of the fireflies would be a good start.

More current anime are becoming cleaner, or it would appear so. It seems like several of titles you reviewed are older titles, released by American companies of course. Back in the early 90’s, companies were trying to appeal to a more select, mature audience. Now that anime has blossomed in popularity, a much much wider range of anime is available- ones that I can watch with my mom (Master Keaton) or my little sister (Junkers come here, Sherlock Hound, etc.).


Their paranoia of anime is about the unknown, the wildcard nature... The fact that these "unhip parents" are not going to be cool enough to discover which ones are ok... Basically the argument that most of them are not bad, or some are not bad doesn't fly... It's the unknown factor, the fact they may not know what is what, that's what they target. And that's why, with many parents (though not all, we have some parents here so it's not all christian parents), their argument is concrete and infalliable.

Also, it must be noted that it was not Japan that cleaned up their act, it was the fact that anime got more popular in the US and canada. That meant that PG and PG-13 calibur anime had an opening... See, because it was foreign, the only way to draw people into it was to A. Bring kid stuff and remove all the Japanese culture from it (speed racer, Kimba, Astroboy) or B. Take the most shocking and weird stuff and draw the rebellious, angry, and depressed college age and new millitary recruits who were bored(Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Urutsukidoji, La Blue Girl (the latter two of those four being OFF LIMITS to pretty much every christian...)) There were PG and PG-13 anime the whole time, it's just that they never found their way over here at that time because no one would have watched them in the US because of the stigma attatched to animation.


[quote]That’s all I’ve done so far. Good? Comments? Feel free to quote a part of my letter and, like, criticize it to your hearts content ^^]

I'm scared of that... Scared of what it could mean for me... And other people here, but I made my thoughts known. It's up to you now, I suppose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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