One Piece

[Tommy]

dude, i totally don't like the american dubs for them! Luffy sounds really stupid! its crazy. I like the Japanese series a whole lot more. Plus Movie 1 was really good!

I believe Mithrandir was refering to THIS post.

[gogogoh3]

I still think the jap version is better and I like one piece a lot just hard to catch up =)

[AsianBlossom]

So, with the release of the FUNimation version of this show on DVD, do you think that a new review is in order?

Not to mention that the show is up to like 350-some episodes in Japan...

[ShiroiHikari]

It would be nice to have an updated review, but it would be quite a task, plus it would take forever to appear here anyway XD;

[AsianBlossom]

Heh, true.

My main reason for having an updated review is because the English FUNimation DVD dub had about 101 expletives in the first 13 episodes alone. That was a shocker. So I'm guessing it's rated "TV14" on the back of the box not because of blood (which there isn't a lot of compared to the manga) but because of the language.

And I was thinking: what if we broke the reviews up into separate seasons? I think there's a series on here already that is broken up like that.

[MasterDias]

My main reason for having an updated review is because the English FUNimation DVD dub had about 101 expletives in the first 13 episodes alone. That was a shocker. So I'm guessing it's rated "TV14" on the back of the box not because of blood (which there isn't a lot of compared to the manga) but because of the language.

Blame Funimation for overcompensating for the 4kids hackjob. But language aside, they might be playing it safe for later episodes anyway. Some of the later arcs get more intense.

[creed4]

I ordered One Piece season one on Saturday. I won't get to see it for a week, but it's exciting to see it uncut

[AsianBlossom]

So...you think if we decide to make a new "per DVD release" review for One Piece, I could do the first one?

[AsianBlossom]

Sorry to double post, but is this okay? Or could we do it by season? Or just update the review everytime a new DVD set comes out?

Because the new uncut version doesn't quite match the review that's up completely.

[Maokun]

This is one of the series where I cannot stress enough this, at the risk of sounding obnoxious: The manga is far, far, far better. The pacing and the narration is infinitely superior, the art is amazing while in the anime is too cartoonish. The anime series reeks of being retooled to target younger kids and while the differences on the story are minimal, I cannot help but feel patronised and childish watching the anime. If you love this anime, give a try to the manag even if you haven't ever read manga or don't particularly like it. Since I'm already sounding like an obnoxious hipster, I might as well say this: One Piece manga is the real One Piece.

[Jeikobu]

I know this thread is old but I thought it might make the most sense to ask my question here first.

As the CAA review sadly fails to elaborate on (maybe the reviewer didn't get this far), the Sky Island arc is very disturbing spiritually. I'm only through episode 167 and don't imagine I'll finish the arc, which spans in the 190's I believe. It is extremely irreverent, and the series seems to be more and more taking shots at God. Shortly before the arc, there was an episode in which an antagonist dressed as a nun pretends to be scared of Zoro and is fake praying to God for protection or something of the sort, and then shows her true colors and fires an energy attack from the cross she was holding and says something like, "God's protection!" I also noticed that some probable villains which will probably show up sometime after the Sky Island arc are likely going to be insulting to Christians. One had the given name "Jesus", and another was holding a book that said "Bible", and we can see by how they're portrayed and the company they're hanging with in the short time we see them that they're not good news, and they'll be showing up later.

As for Sky Island, the writers go out of their way to infer that the god of the kingdom in the clouds that they're in is THE God. This god, however, is completely evil and cruel. They then show that there was a god before him, and treat it like some sort of normal kingship. People in the city have little wings like angels, too. There are plenty of other upsetting details as well, but I'd like to move on to my question.

My question is, how much longer does this stuff go on for? Even after Sky Island, it looks like there will still be problems. Does the show ever get back to not being blasphemous toward God? Does it ever mellow out to where it was before? I've considered dropping this series, but I'd like have an idea of how things look in it down the road.

[ShiroiHikari]

Anime has been misappropriating Christian symbols since at least the 1980s. Best suggestion I have to offer is that if you can't take it, don't watch it. To me, what you described sounds no worse than the Star Trek movie where that alien being claimed to be the One True God, or the usage of Judeo-Christian imagery in a certain 1990s giant robot show.

Also I don't think there are a lot of people here that keep current with One Piece at the moment, but I could be wrong.

[Nate]

there was an episode in which an antagonist dressed as a nun pretends to be scared of Zoro and is fake praying to God for protection or something of the sort, and then shows her true colors and fires an energy attack from the cross she was holding and says something like, "God's protection!"

That sounds pretty hilarious.

One had the given name "Jesus", and another was holding a book that said "Bible", and we can see by how they're portrayed and the company they're hanging with in the short time we see them that they're not good news, and they'll be showing up later.

One, Jesus is a fairly common Spanish name, and Jesus Burgess is a Mexican wrestler parody (he wears a lucha libre mask). I even had a Mexican kid named Jesus in my Spanish class in high school. It's pronounced "hay-soos." If you're really that upset about a Spanish name and think it's somehow offensive to Christianity, I don't know what to tell you. Don't ever visit Mexico, I guess.

Two, the person holding the Bible is Bartholomew Kuma. He's an homage to Bartholomew "Black Bart" Roberts, who is an actual historical pirate and who created a code of honor for his crew to follow, and made them all swear on a Bible to uphold the code. If you haven't noticed, quite a few of the characters in One Piece are references/homages to actual historical pirates (Blackbeard, Zoro, etc.). The Bible is merely there to signify his connection to the historical pirate. Though he has been shown to be a fairly benevolent character as well, even saving the Straw Hats twice.

As for Sky Island, the writers go out of their way to infer that the god of the kingdom in the clouds that they're in is THE God.

They just call him "God." It can be assumed that god is merely a title, like "Captain" or "King." At no point did they make any explicit reference to Christianity/Judaism. "God" is not a term that Christianity owns exclusively you know. Hinduism and paganism also have gods. Zeus is a god. That doesn't mean Zeus is THE God, but Zeus is called "god." And so it is with Enel/Eneru.

People in the city have little wings like angels, too.

But they're never called angels, and have practically nothing to do with angels. They don't even seem to be able to fly using their wings, nor do they use any type of magic or supernatural ability. I think MAYBE Sanji made a crack about Apis being an "angel" but it's Sanji, what do you expect?

Does the show ever get back to not being blasphemous toward God?

This implies it was blasphemous in the first place, which it isn't.

[Jeikobu]

I'd really appreciate you guys not talking down to me so much, as if I don't know anything. Politeness goes a long way.

The fact that you (Nate) think the nun thing sounds so funny concerns me. What is so funny about them blasting Christianity like that?

I do appreciate the info on those pirate characters. I did not know they were based on real people, nor could I have been expected to know.

There was a line were they say Enel is "God", and Chopper says, "You mean, THE God?"

I have a hard time seeing how, especially with looking at all of this as a whole, this stuff isn't trying to insult the Lord.

It would help if there were good characters to counter this spiritually, but not only do we not get that, but we have Zoro who proudly states he's never once prayed to God, and Chopper thinks that's cool. I can't expect Christian content from writers who obviously are probably not Christians, but that doesn't make this inoffensive.

[Atria35]

Nuns are played around with in anime a lot- I have a hard time thinking about an anime where they aren't shown incorrectly. It's not that they're trying to be offensive, it's that they just don't know- they're very similar to Miko's, in a way (I can see the parallels), so they just don't do the research.

I actually think the nun thing is funny, too- I've seen Bible Man, where Bible verses turn into a sword and 'cut down' evil. That's essentially the same thing (but Bible Man is incredibly dumb, so I would rather watch One Piece).

Since 99% of Japan isn't Christian, you really should never expect Christian content. If it's any consolation, I've seen it be incredibly irreverant to all religions.

But this is a Christian Anime Alliance, we can definitely recommend some anime that are less offensive. Have you seen Haibane Renmei, for instance?

I'm actually going to echo Shoroi, though- Western media has been doing the same thing for just as long. It's not anime-only.

[Nate]

The fact that you (Nate) think the nun thing sounds so funny concerns me. What is so funny about them blasting Christianity like that?

How is it blasting Christianity? It's a nun shooting a swordsman while yelling "GOD'S PROTECTION!" That's almost as funny as in Slayers with Amelia's pacifist father. "PACIFIST CRUSH! GOOD WILL TOWARDS MEN SMASH! KINDNESS TO ALL CREATURES KICK!"

There was a line were they say Enel is "God", and Chopper says, "You mean, THE God?"

Chopper couldn't tell that Sogeking and Usopp were the same person. Using something Chopper said as proof isn't really very convincing.

I have a hard time seeing how, especially with looking at all of this as a whole, this stuff isn't trying to insult the Lord.

I don't know what to say, then. It's not. That's not the purpose and that's not what Oda is doing. Oda is simply a man telling a story. Do you think the people who made Clash of the Titans hate Greek paganism? Do you think that the people who made Percy Jackson hate it too? Do you think Marvel Comics hates Norse paganism because of Thor?

Just because something is used as a plot point or a reference doesn't mean the creator is doing it to paint the thing in a negative light. It's already been said, countless times, that to Japan, Christianity is a cool foreign religion to draw inspiration from, same as people use Greek/Roman paganism in the US, or even Norse Mythology. It's something we're not particularly familiar with and contains a lot of symbolism that can be used for flavor.

You may find that insulting, but it isn't meant to be. I'm not even saying you have to like it. If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to. But what bothers me is you making assumptions that are flat-out unwarranted and false. Oda does not hate Christianity, and if you asked him, he would say that he doesn't hate it, and isn't trying to insult it. He's just drawing on it for inspiration for his fun and fantasy world. Again, you don't have to like it, but it doesn't make it insulting or blasphemous, so my issue was you saying that it is.

It would help if there were good characters to counter this spiritually

I can't imagine anyone not finding Usopp, Franky, or Luffy to be good characters. Nami is kind of annoying, though. Chopper is pretty hit or miss, sometimes he's awesome but sometimes he's just annoying.

we have Zoro who proudly states he's never once prayed to God, and Chopper thinks that's cool.

Having an atheist character does not make something hostile to Christianity or even religion in general. There are atheists in real life. In fact, there's atheists in many Christian movies and TV shows. Does that make these shows offensive and insulting to Christianity merely because there is a character that doesn't believe in God? I don't think so. Otherwise the Old Testament is insulting to Christianity because it has people who worship Baal and make fun of God.

but that doesn't make this inoffensive.

Actually it does make it inoffensive, but I'm not saying you don't have the right to be offended by it. You have the right to be offended by anything you want to be offended by, but it's still inoffensive. For example, maybe I'm offended by the dancing banana smiley for a stupid example. Is the dancing banana smiley offensive? No, it isn't, but I still can be offended by it even if it's inoffensive.

What I'm saying is, if you don't like the show? Don't watch it. Nobody here will say you're dumb or weak in your faith for not liking the show. Everyone has different standards and levels of comfort. However, you need to realize that your feelings about the show are your own, personal feelings and are not inherent to the show. The show is not offensive to Christianity. That's plain objective truth. If it makes you uncomfortable, though, that is perfectly understandable. Your personal convictions are different than mine, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But it isn't the show's fault, that's all I'm saying. This was the point of my comment about the show would have to be blasphemous in the first place. Because again, it isn't.

[Midori]

You can make a bunch of fine points about various bits of content, but in the end the principle is quite simple:

If it bothers you, don't watch it, and don't feel guilty for not watching it.
If it doesn't bother you, watch it, and don't feel guilty for watching it.

Making it more complicated than this is typically unnecessary. Especially if it turns into a theological discussion, which is not appropriate here.

[KougaHane]

I don't know what to say, then. It's not. That's not the purpose and that's not what Oda is doing. Oda is simply a man telling a story. Do you think the people who made Clash of the Titans hate Greek paganism? Do you think that the people who made Percy Jackson hate it too? Do you think Marvel Comics hates Norse paganism because of Thor?

Wow, I've never thought of that before! Religious symbols in anime actually inspire me, because I see Japanese people actually finding Christianity interesting. From what I can tell of American movies and television, the only Christian symbols are in horror films about exorcisms and the like. Most people in America just flat-out aren't interested in Christianity, probably because There's a church on every corner. not that there's anything wrong with that of course (although if they are dead churches it is.) You have to remember that Japan has a population of around 120 million, only 3 million of which are Christians. That's less than %1.. I think.. I fail at math, but it's low!:drool:

[Jeikobu]

I actually think the nun thing is funny, too- I've seen Bible Man, where Bible verses turn into a sword and 'cut down' evil. That's essentially the same thing (but Bible Man is incredibly dumb, so I would rather watch One Piece).

The different is portrayal. Bible Man is a hero for good, the character in One Piece was dressed as a nun and was shown as an antagonist. It's like they're making Christianity the bad guy (not just with this, but with the other stuff I mentioned, too).

Have you seen Haibane Renmei, for instance?

Yeah and I found it upsetting in places. I seem to remember not liking the ending, but now I don't remember what happened. What I do remember really disliking was at one point in the show where the Haibane want to give someone a gift and they want to give the book of Genesis, but part is missing, so they just make it up instead. I imagine some may think this seems ok, like "what else where they supposed to do, give the person something incomplete?", but to me it's like adding to and taking away from Scripture, and we know what God says about that. Furthermore, in their story, they make it like God made a mistake in His first try creating humans. Why that offends me probably needs no explanation. But anyway, back on topic.

Chopper couldn't tell that Sogeking and Usopp were the same person. Using something Chopper said as proof isn't really very convincing.

The thing is I recall one of the winged people confirming his statement when he asked.

Do you think Marvel Comics hates Norse paganism because of Thor?

The difference is Thor is shown as a hero, and they even make a lot of statements and positive nods to Norse paganism. Every time I've seen One Piece approach Christianity it's in a negative sense.

But what bothers me is you making assumptions that are flat-out unwarranted and false. Oda does not hate Christianity, and if you asked him, he would say that he doesn't hate it, and isn't trying to insult it.

Do you have any proof of this? I would love to see it. I've searched on this subject before but I recall coming up with nothing either way. If you have any sound proof, please show me.

I can't imagine anyone not finding Usopp, Franky, or Luffy to be good characters. Nami is kind of annoying, though. Chopper is pretty hit or miss, sometimes he's awesome but sometimes he's just annoying.

My point is none of them are a counterattack for the apparent negative portrayal of Christianity in the before-mentioned antagonists. If God is mentioned, they seem to either take Him lightly (for lack of a better word) like Nami, doing this fakey little prayer thing (at one point during the Sky Island arc) about money when it suits her, which is clearly meant for comedy, or they're like Zoro. Most characters just don't seem to care, though. So you have very secular heroes. They do good and moral things, but there's no one to say, "Hey, you're not God, the true God is loving and benevolent", or something. Again, we can't expect this from an anime considering the heart-breaking spiritual situation in Japan (may it change soon), but my point is without heroes to counter what the villains are saying and doing in these cases, it's easy for Christianity to look like the bad guy. Hope that makes some sense.

However, you need to realize that your feelings about the show are your own, personal feelings and are not inherent to the show. The show is not offensive to Christianity. That's plain objective truth.

How do you know those aren't your own personal feelings, then?

[mechana2015]

I thought it was made fairly clear at the end of the Enil arc that Enil was:

1. a fake and decieving everyone on sky island, and everyone knows it by the end

2. A fruit user who used his abilities to make himself out to be more than he was

3. Human

[Nate]

The thing is I recall one of the winged people confirming his statement when he asked.

I don't recall that, but it's been a while since I've seen Skypeia. Though which "winged person" it is could make a difference too, as if it was one of Enel's followers, they'd obviously want to try and scare the Straw Hats.

At any rate, even if they did mean it, so what? One Piece is a fantasy world that doesn't exist. It definitely isn't Earth, unless you can show me where the Calm Belt and Sea Kings exist in the real world we live in right now. It'd be like complaining about the portrayal of "God" in the Lord of the Rings (who seems largely unconcerned about the universe) or the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms universes. They're not real, and even if they have gods, they're not meant to be the Christian God. Again, the ONLY reason for the Bible Kuma carries is a historical reference to the pirate. And it's not like the word "bible" is only meant for the Christian Bible anyway. "Bible" is its own word and can be used for other things. For example, many shows have bibles that contain information on the characters and setting of the show.

Heck my mom owns a book called "The Plant Bible" or something like that that tells how to properly take care of and plant all sorts of plants. Again, since One Piece does NOT take place on Earth or anything resembling Earth, it's ludicrous to assume that the Bible Kuma holds is the Christian Bible. The world of One Piece may have its own religions with their own bibles. Oda hasn't really gone into any detail about the religions of the world (at least not when I was watching, that may have changed).

The difference is Thor is shown as a hero, and they even make a lot of statements and positive nods to Norse paganism.

You don't know much about Norse paganism or the Thor comics, then. For example, Loki is shown in the Marvel Comics universe to be a god of evil and Thor's enemy. This is a huge change from the actual god Loki in Norse paganism, who was a trickster and occasionally causes problems for the gods, but was not evil. In fact, Thor and Loki were together in a few of the mythological stories, and if not truly friends, were at least on good terms with each other. This is in stark contrast to the Marvel Comics Loki which was always hateful and resentful to Thor.

He was a major cause of the death of Baldr, of course, but again, he wasn't doing it out of evil or spite, but out of mischief. So my point still stands. Do you think the writers of Thor hate Norse paganism and that's why they manipulated the legends to better portray a superhero story? I bet they don't hate Norse paganism at all, even if they did change a few non-evil gods into villains.

Do you have any proof of this? I would love to see it. I've searched on this subject before but I recall coming up with nothing either way. If you have any sound proof, please show me.

You may have missed the part where I said "I bet if you asked." I did not say "He was asked." However, as I said, there is no reason to assume Oda hates Christianity, and if you asked him, I would guarantee he would say he doesn't hate it.

without heroes to counter what the villains are saying and doing in these cases, it's easy for Christianity to look like the bad guy. Hope that makes some sense.

It doesn't make sense, no. Enel and Skypeia are in no way portrayed as related to Christianity, and any hostile feelings you have are purely your own, but are not presented in the show/manga itself. Besides, are you seriously telling me Luffy didn't counter what Enel said or did?

How do you know those aren't your own personal feelings, then?

Because objectively speaking, the show is not hostile or negative to Christianity. I've already stated this using Thor and Greek paganism as examples. Simply because a person puts in references to things that are foreign and cool, does not mean the person hates them, nor does it mean that they are offensive. Again, you personally can find them offensive, and no one is saying you don't have that right. And again, no one is telling you you're overreacting or that you're being dumb. At least, I'm not. I'm just saying that it's your personal feelings and an objective look at the show proves that it is not hostile or negative to Christianity. Thus, any offense you feel is not the fault of the show, but your own convictions. And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that badmouthing the show for your own feelings is in poor taste.

It'd be like if I said "The King's Speech sucks and is the worst movie ever because nobody turns into a masked superhero!" I may not like the movie because it doesn't have masked superheroes, but that does not make the movie suck, and it doesn't make it the worst ever. It's still a fantastic movie even if I don't like it. I have the right to not like it, even if it is a great movie. But the reason I don't like the movie isn't the fault of the movie. It wasn't meant to be a superhero movie, so that's not a flaw if I dislike it because it lacks superheroes. The movie didn't do anything wrong by not including them.

One Piece is inoffensive in the area of religion. You can still find it offensive, but it's still inoffensive. My DS is inedible. If I break it into smaller pieces, I can stick them in my mouth and chew and swallow it, and I'll have eaten it. But even if I have eaten it, it's still inedible. And even if you are offended by One Piece, it's still inoffensive.

EDIT: Also what mech said. By the end everyone knew Enel was a pretender to the throne and was merely abusing the power of his Devil Fruit for selfish purposes. It was made quite clear he was just a normal human who had eaten the lightning fruit.

[Jeikobu]

At any rate, even if they did mean it, so what? One Piece is a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

What do you mean, so what? This is something I lot of people seem to think about fiction, that it's nothing more than that. I strongly disagree. It may be fictional, but watching it is real, and a lot of the ideas in fiction are real, and like it or not, it will leave some kind of impression. Things plant seeds. That's what God told us to meditate on what's good, pure, and wholesome. I don't like arguing, and getting too into this conversation will get us off topic, so I'll try to leave it at that. Please just consider that point, please.

You don't know much about Norse paganism or the Thor comics, then. For example, Loki is shown in the Marvel Comics universe to be a god of evil and Thor's enemy.

I bet they don't hate Norse paganism at all, even if they did change a few non-evil gods into villains.

Fair enough, I don't know about Norse paganism, and I didn't know Loki wasn't a villain in that mythology. I just knew some of what Marvel showed. The difference is, Marvel didn't show all of them as evil. When has One Piece ever given Christianity a positive portrayal? There's nothing to combat the negative portrayals it appears to have given it.

However, as I said, there is no reason to assume Oda hates Christianity, and if you asked him, I would guarantee he would say he doesn't hate it.

I think, unless the anime has really deviated from the manga in the subject matter we've been discussing, we've been given reason to wonder if Oda is against Christianity. I can't say he is without hard proof. I can't judge him without knowing. But it makes me considered about him. What grounds do you have in saying otherwise? So far I see no proof.

Besides, are you seriously telling me Luffy didn't counter what Enel said or did?

Sure, Luffy is against him and wants to beat him down, but he's still a totally secular character. There's no spiritual countering beyond that Luffy has some good morals.

Simply because a person puts in references to things that are foreign and cool, does not mean the person hates them, nor does it mean that they are offensive.

One Piece does more than put in references, it puts them in and portrays them as evil, at least from the episodes I've seen, and that's the whole reason I posted in this thread in the first place: to see if it continues as the show goes along.

I'm just saying that it's your personal feelings and an objective look at the show proves that it is not hostile or negative to Christianity. Thus, any offense you feel is not the fault of the show, but your own convictions. And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that badmouthing the show for your own feelings is in poor taste.

I'd love for the whole show to be clean and for me to be able to see it all. Until it started offending me, I was really enjoying it. But I can't go against what I believe is right.
Please don't try to pin my whole argument on just being my emotions and that I'm being blinded by them. There's a lot more to it than that. I think it's important not to look at things with too secular a view. I don't understand how a Christian can view these parts of the anime we've discussed and not feel offended on some level.

EDIT: Also what mech said. By the end everyone knew Enel was a pretender to the throne and was merely abusing the power of his Devil Fruit for selfish purposes. It was made quite clear he was just a normal human who had eaten the lightning fruit.

That helps to know, but the course of events leading up to that still bothers me. Also, does that mean the Knight of the Sky is also a human? Does Skypeia have a supposedly real "god" or is the whole thing just a hoax in general for them?


By the way, I also double checked, and the One Piece character Jesus Burgress has his name pronounced "Jiizasu", like "Jesus", not the Spanish pronunciation of "Heisus". While this is concerning to me, I am mindful his could be an error on their part, or maybe the wrestler had it pronounced "Jesus" instead.

[Nate]

What do you mean, so what?

I didn't say that "Because it's fictional it's harmless." You're misunderstanding. What I said was "It's a fictional world, so it doesn't need to be related to the real world at all." I used Lord of the Rings as an example. Tolkien was a Christian and his work reflects that. However, Middle-Earth is a fantasy world, and the Christian God does not exist in the world of Lord of the Rings.

Does Tolkien hate Christianity? Obviously not, because he was Christian. However, he created a fictional world in which Christ did not exist. This is not hostile to Christianity because it is a world where Christianity doesn't exist. Fictional.

Likewise, the world of One Piece is a fictional world in which Christ does not exist. This means it also is not hostile to Christianity. I hope that's clearer. My point wasn't that the fiction makes it harmless, my point was the fact that it's fictional means that you can't have Christian characters anyway because Christ does not exist in these worlds. So my point is let's assume that Enel actually is the God of the One Piece world. He isn't, but let's assume he is. My point is even if he IS "the" God, he's not the Christian God, he isn't meant to be the Christian God, because the Christian God does not exist in One Piece, as it is a fictional world that is not meant to reflect reality.

Scott Adams said one of the most bizarre and confusing things he would get from people when he was writing Dilbert was people writing him and saying "Your comic is exactly like where I work!" He said it was bizarre and confusing because he tries his best to make it as unrealistic and impossible as he can. One Piece is much the same, Oda is trying his best to create a world that is literally completely unlike or even remotely similar to the world we live in. For him to throw in Christianity, an actual existing religion, into his fantasy world he's trying to make over the top and as crazy and wondrous as he can, wouldn't make any bit of sense.

When has One Piece ever given Christianity a positive portrayal?

How can it give a positive portrayal to something that does not exist in its universe? When have any of your posts on CAA given Walter McFarnstrom a positive portrayal? That's a guy I just made up just now. He doesn't exist, so how can you give him a positive portrayal if he doesn't exist? It's nonsense, isn't it? That's my point.

Which also means it hasn't given Christianity negative portrayals either. I have refuted each of your claims:

1. Enel is God. This is refuted by the fact that "God" does not appear to exist in the fictional world of One Piece, and that even if Enel WAS God, it still would not be a negative portrayal of Christianity since Christianity does not exist.

2. Kuma's Bible. This is refuted by the fact that the word "bible" is not exclusively owned by Christianity, and also the fact that it is merely a reference to the actual historical pirate Bartholomew Roberts who Kuma is loosely based on.

3. The nun that shot Zoro. Okay, I didn't refute this, but Atria did, so I'll quote her: Nuns are played around with in anime a lot- I have a hard time thinking about an anime where they aren't shown incorrectly. It's not that they're trying to be offensive, it's that they just don't know- they're very similar to Miko's, in a way (I can see the parallels), so they just don't do the research.

Add into it that there's also an anime called Toaru Majutsu no Index that has nuns from the Church of England in it...despite the fact that the Church of England doesn't actually have nuns. It's called "Anime uses foreign things to look cool and isn't trying to be offensive." Which is another point I've been making.

we've been given reason to wonder if Oda is against Christianity.

No, we haven't. Using things as a historical reference, using them to indicate how powerful Enel is (and as a ruling term for a country), and using things as a way to seem foreign and cool are not reasons to wonder if Oda is against Christianity at all. I'd hate to get accusatory and start being rude, but part of me wonders if you really are just actively looking to be persecuted because of a comfortable life. Just because Japan has a low Christian population and their artists like to use cool foreign seeming religion as influence for their works is not, NOT a sign of hatred. Again, the Greek paganism/Norse paganism population in the United States is pretty dang low, and you'd be hard pressed to prove that the people who do Thor or Clash of the Titans or Hercules: The Legendary Journeys hate Greek mythology just because they get things wrong about it or portray it incorrectly from the actual religion.

I don't see how this is so hard to understand. You can still find it offensive! I'm not saying you can't! You can absolutely feel uncomfortable and upset about it. Your feelings are valid! But they are YOUR feelings and are NOT inherent to the author or the work itself. This is all I'm saying.

What grounds do you have in saying otherwise? So far I see no proof.

I have offered far more proof than you, so while I also do not have a solid case, it is at least logically consistent with how Japanese people view foreign cultures. You would have me believe that Oda is trying to bash a religion in a series where said religion does not exist, and is purposely doing it out of a form of hatred or dislike for a religion he is likely not familiar with or has been exposed to, in stark contrast to other artists exactly like him who do not hate Christianity and have done similar things just because it's foreign to them.

It's a pretty hefty claim, that you haven't provided even remotely solid evidence for. While I have no proof, my statements have more evidence behind them.

Please don't try to pin my whole argument on just being my emotions and that I'm being blinded by them.

I'm not saying that, I don't think your emotions are blinding you. Not at all. What I'm saying is you're not accepting them as your emotions. You're saying "It's not MY fault I'm upset, it's this show being evil and portraying Christianity as bad!" You're shifting blame so that you are not at fault, that's the problem. If a show upsets you, you're not wrong to be upset. But you are wrong to make rash judgment and accusatory statements at this thing when it's not at all like you said.

"I don't feel comfortable watching this. It's outside my personal convictions" is a far different statement than "This show is blasphemous and hates God."

I don't understand how a Christian can view these parts of the anime we've discussed and not feel offended on some level.

And I don't understand how a Christian can view these parts of the anime we've discussed and feel offended on any level.

It appears, sir, we are at an impasse.

Also, does that mean the Knight of the Sky is also a human? Does Skypeia have a supposedly real "god" or is the whole thing just a hoax in general for them?

Gan Fall is a Skypeian, despite the fact that he doesn't appear to have any wings. And it isn't a "hoax." "God" is just the title of their ruler, like "King," "President," "Emperor," "Supreme Dictator," etc. It isn't a hoax, it's just the title of the ruler. Just like how they say "heso" and not "hello." It's not because of some weird hoax to deny that hell exists or something, it's just their language and their custom. "God" is simply the name of their ruler.

It's actually not that strange. We call God "Lord," but "lord" is just a title for someone who rules over land. In those days you'd call someone "M'lord" or "Lord Hallsingdingworth" or whatever. And so it made sense for the translators of the KJV to give God the title "Lord," as He is our King. But if I call you "Lord Jeikobu" that doesn't mean I'm calling you God, that's a silly assumption.

By the way, I also double checked, and the One Piece character Jesus Burgress has his name pronounced "Jiizasu", like "Jesus", not the Spanish pronunciation of "Heisus". While this is concerning to me, I am mindful his could be an error on their part, or maybe the wrestler had it pronounced "Jesus" instead.

It isn't pronounced the Mexican way, you're right. That is kind of odd, but it's not unusual for Japan to do things like that. Your username being spelled the way it is is a pretty good indication of that, eh? :p

[goldenspines]

It appears that some of you are having trouble reading mods' posts:

Making it more complicated than this is typically unnecessary. Especially if it turns into a theological discussion, which is not appropriate here.

There is a place for theology discussions, even concerning anime, found here: http://www.christiananime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=103

Either remake a thread about this there, or continue conversation via PM. There was no need to gravedig a 5 year old anime review notice to start an involved discussion about its theological content.

Locked.