CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

What made Voyager suck?

It definately wasn't the EMH!

Recycling the same concept too many times

Writer 1: "I've got it! Something goes wrong with the holodeck!"
Writer 2: "That's good, but how's THIS: Seven has to deal with something but ends up learning about being an individual!!!"
Writer 1:"And then, near the end, Janeway can say something profound!"
Writer 2: "BRILLIANT!!!"

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:Recycling the same concept too many times

Writer 1: "I've got it! Something goes wrong with the holodeck!"
Writer 2: "That's good, but how's THIS: Seven has to deal with something but ends up learning about being an individual!!!"
Writer 1:"And then, near the end, Janeway can say something profound!"
Writer 2: "BRILLIANT!!!"

Yep, that about sums it up!

Voyager was a GREAT series, probably one of the best in the history of Trek, but they did overuse a few concepts]
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I do have a question though: After 7 years in the delta quadrant on ACTIVE duty and a near perfect record, why wasn't Ensign Kim ever promoted? I mean, Tom Paris was GIVEN a Starfleet comission, demoted in rank to ensign, and then promoted back to his original rank, yet Kim stayed with one pip on his collar! What's up with that, Janeway?!

I don't know. I only watched up to the series where Seven of Nine joined. The local broadcaster never completed airing the series.

bigsleepj wrote:I don't know. I only watched up to the series where Seven of Nine joined. The local broadcaster never completed airing the series.

I only saw Voyager from the DVD box sets in the library up until they started showing it on Spike TV. Though, I haven't seen any of the episodes from season two...I really wanted to see Voyager land on a planet for the first time!

That's the one feature that really sets Voyager apart from any other Star Trek leading ship... when this one lands on a planet, it can get back up into space with no problem!

BTW, I still say Troi crashed the saucer section of the Enterprise-D into that planet...dingbatty Betazoid drivers...

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:Recycling the same concept too many times

Writer 1: "I've got it! Something goes wrong with the holodeck!"
Writer 2: "That's good, but how's THIS: Seven has to deal with something but ends up learning about being an individual!!!"
Writer 1:"And then, near the end, Janeway can say something profound!"
Writer 2: "BRILLIANT!!!"

While that is true, I do not think we can reasonalby explain why Voyager is one of the less successful Star Treks. The Next Generation has the exact same flaw in it, but it is perhaps the most loved of the series.

I think it has more to do with cast chemistry than recycled story lines.

I think it was the part where Janeway jumped over the shark wearing waterskis.

termyt wrote:While that is true, I do not think we can reasonalby explain why Voyager is one of the less successful Star Treks. The Next Generation has the exact same flaw in it, but it is perhaps the most loved of the series.

True, but Next Gen came first, so most of the ideas weren't THAT recycled yet, so they come off as being fresher. Voyager suffered from the added staleness of it's recycled plots having also been recycled from two whole shows rather than just its previous seasons.

rsnumber2 wrote:I think it was the part where Janeway jumped over the shark wearing waterskis.

Bravo

Too many of Neelix' Talaxian Surprise Casseroles!

I think Harry never got promoted because Janeway was personally **** at him for the way he broke regs in that one episode with the alien chick.Yes
Tom breaks the rules all the time,but Tom is just being Tom and so could get away with it almost.But with Harry,well he was supposed to be the perfect junior officer and so when he broke the regs it was like he broke trust with Janeway.So I really think she withheld his promotion because of that.Either that or they didn't have enough pips to go around!

The only time I think Voyager really screwed up and jumped the shark was with the sequel to Fair Haven,Spirit Folk.I mean we're to believe that somehow an entire holodeck program goes awry causing tall the characters to some how to become self aware?
It worked with Moriarty on Next Gen.because he was only one character but
an entire cast of characters...and very badly stereotyped as well?

I bet the lack of pips was the real reason. They had to conserve resources on Voyager, after all! When Tom got demoted, he might have had a shot, but nooooo...

Speaking of promotions and ranks--

Anyone ever notice that Chakotay, while holding the position of First Officer, only held the rank of Lt. Commander. If you look at his rank insigna, it has two gold slashes and one dark slash. What's up with that?

Maybe that was his rank before he left to join the Maquis?

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:Speaking of promotions and ranks--

Anyone ever notice that Chakotay, while holding the position of First Officer, only held the rank of Lt. Commander. If you look at his rank insigna, it has two gold slashes and one dark slash. What's up with that?

It may be worth noting, that Chakotay's commission is a field commission only, he is not a member of Star Fleet. Janeway used her executive power as the ships captain to assign rank and position to both Maquis and surviving Star Fleet members. Under the extreme circumstances she faced, it would be most natural for her to build a rank structure mirroring the rank structure of the ship before the incident. It's possible that Janeway her self is only a Commander, depending on her service record, the Voyager's role and their importance to the fleet.

After the emergecy is over, the Star Fleet members would lose their battlefield commissions and return to their previous ranks and Maquis members would lose their commissions altogether (pending review by Star Fleet where promotions and commissions could be made permenant).

If we are speaking of rank then what rank does the EMH hold? As CMO shouldn't he hold at least an honorary rank of Lieutenant Commander?
Back to Chakotay,I believe Lieutenant Commander was actually his rank when he resigned so Janeway simply reinstated him to his previous rank.
Torres was given the rank of Lieutenant probably because you can't have an Ensign
as Chief Engineer on a Starship.
Since poor Harry was never promoted he is the only one that would keep rank without having to go through a review.
Basically Janeway's only DEMOTED someone twice in the series that I can remember:1.When Tom decided to play Greenpiece with the space ocean
2.When they added the survivors of that other Federation starship to the crew and she was angry at them for the way they had betrayed her earlier trust.

While we're at it, how come we never learned what Chakotay's first name was?

mitsuki lover wrote:Basically Janeway's only DEMOTED someone twice in the series that I can remember:1.When Tom decided to play Greenpiece with the space ocean

I remember that episode! "Thirty Days". Kinda borning for me, though. But I like how it was sandwiched with the demotion.

In hindsight, I kinda wished that scene played out like this:

Janeway: ...I hearby demote you to the rank of ensign...and I sentence you to thirty days solitary confinment...now get me a drink and kiss me you fool!

There was only one episode I really enjoyed with Voyager.
Where they are all coming down with some virus that's killing them and they are trying to reach a starbase for help. During that they find out their just clones of the original crew and they are beginning to fail as most clones do. Jane is the last alive when they run into the real Voyager but sadly the entire ship and Jane has turned into particles already and they don't read as much on the original ship's sensors. I thought it was surprisingly creative compared to the other rehashed story lines and cameos in some of the eps. Anyway, if they had gne that route they may have lasted longer, or maybe not.... *Thanks about Enterprise* *shutters* lol
God Bless,
Souba

I really enjoyed it when I watched Voyager -but then again, I only really caught the odd episode; aside from that, I hadn't watched too many of any earlier Star Trek series. Personally, Voyager is one of my favourite Star Trek series so far... but then, let me restate that I haven't seen many of the other series. Though I'm starting to watch the newest one now, and I'm enjoying that. Can't remember it's name, though. ^^"

But perhaps the fact that so often they recycled similar plots did have something to do with it. Also, I think that maybe you can only keep a 'we're trying to get home' theme going for so long. It has to end sometime! Sure, they were a long way away from Earth, but it seemed almost inconcieveable to guess how long it would take them to get home. Of course, when they truly arrived home (not all the red herrings, mishaps etc) you know the series would end. But still.

Kim was probably never promoted because all the people above him (bridge crew) lived. Since there was no one willing to help him out and kick the bucket he got stuck where he was. However, most of the other people who died didn't seem to get replaced maybe that wouldn't have helped.

Souba wrote:There was only one episode I really enjoyed with Voyager.
Where they are all coming down with some virus that's killing them and they are trying to reach a starbase for help. During that they find out their just clones of the original crew and they are beginning to fail as most clones do. Jane is the last alive when they run into the real Voyager but sadly the entire ship and Jane has turned into particles already and they don't read as much on the original ship's sensors. I thought it was surprisingly creative compared to the other rehashed story lines and cameos in some of the eps. Anyway, if they had gne that route they may have lasted longer, or maybe not.... *Thanks about Enterprise* *shutters* lol
God Bless,
Souba

"Course: Oblivion"! Oh MAN, that was a good one!

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:Recycling the same concept too many times

Writer 1: "I've got it! Something goes wrong with the holodeck!"
Writer 2: "That's good, but how's THIS: Seven has to deal with something but ends up learning about being an individual!!!"
Writer 1:"And then, near the end, Janeway can say something profound!"
Writer 2: "BRILLIANT!!!"

Writer 1: Lets have them encounter a giant problematic alien floating in space!
Writer 2: And then it turns out it's not what they thought it was at first!

Ah,Man!The Kes-Comes-Back-Pissed Off-And-Starts-To-Destroy-Voyager episode
was totally one of the best and most fun ones to watch.Certainly as someone whose all time favorite character was Kes it was totally fun to watch Jennifer Lien return to the series to reprise her role one last time.It was also a great reminder of just how great an actress she can be.I mean she had to play not just present day
Insane Older Kes but also Past Kes.

Photosoph wrote:Also, I think that maybe you can only keep a 'we're trying to get home' theme going for so long. It has to end sometime! Sure, they were a long way away from Earth, but it seemed almost inconcieveable to guess how long it would take them to get home. Of course, when they truly arrived home (not all the red herrings, mishaps etc) you know the series would end. But still.

Dear goodness, that sounds a little too close to the problems that Lost has been experiencing. Lost is over if they get off the island, Voyager was over if they ever got home. It seems to be a problem when a series gets hemmed in by a overarching restrictive plotline that cannot be resolved without ending the show. It's frustrating! Speaking of which, did they ever find Earth?

My dad is a major Trekkie, he loved to original series and he actually wanted to name me after a Vulcan priestess. I was raised on Next Generation and I really liked Deep Space Nine but for some reason I lost interest in Star Trek after Voyager. I think that maybe the characters didn't quite capture my attention as effectively, even though in theory they seemed interesting.

Sorry, ML, but I hated Insane Kes. That was not the best way to bring back one of my favorite characters.

the_lizardqueen wrote:Dear goodness, that sounds a little too close to the problems that Lost has been experiencing. Lost is over if they get off the island, Voyager was over if they ever got home. It seems to be a problem when a series gets hemmed in by a overarching restrictive plotline that cannot be resolved without ending the show. It's frustrating! Speaking of which, did they ever find Earth?

At the very end of the last episode, yes.

You actually bring up a good point. Around last season or two, Voyager started making a LOT of contact with the Alpha Quadrant or people from it. Now that I think about it, the writers were probably trying to work around that very issue (with varying success)

mitsuki lover wrote:Ah,Man!The Kes-Comes-Back-Pissed Off-And-Starts-To-Destroy-Voyager episode
was totally one of the best and most fun ones to watch.

You know, someone really needs to make a music video to that whole scene when Kes arrives back aboard Voyager and things start blowing up arround her. I can so picture the song "Ring the Alarm" by Beyonce playing that whole time! (A sign I've been watching too much anime--I was about to type "Gecko" instead of "Voyager" above )

Correct me if i'm wrong, but personally, I beleive the farther the shows got from Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future and space travel. With shows like Voyager and DS-9, they moved away from that ever-optimistic vision of "boldly going where no man has gone before" to a more realistic, grittier concept. However, I must confess, DS-9 is probably my fav star trek. Perhaps one of the reasons is that it's so different from the others. Instead of the episodic exploration of space, it takes a more soap-opera-ish approach to an epic storyline, (more like an anime ^_^) and I loved the characters. Well, there ya have it. That's my two cents.

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:I only saw Voyager from the DVD box sets in the library up until they started showing it on Spike TV. Though, I haven't seen any of the episodes from season two...I really wanted to see Voyager land on a planet for the first time!

That's the one feature that really sets Voyager apart from any other Star Trek leading ship... when this one lands on a planet, it can get back up into space with no problem!

BTW, I still say Troi crashed the saucer section of the Enterprise-D into that planet...dingbatty Betazoid drivers...

It wasn't Troi...it was because when the stardrive section blew because of the Duras Sisters, the saucer couldn't move away fast enough and was actually pushed further into the planet's gravity well so an unrecoverable crash landing (per the TNG tech manual) was a foregone possibility.

DS9 was the darkest of the Trek franchise which is why it isn't as highly regarded.
One of my favorite DS9 episodes was the one where the DS9 crew play the Vulcan crew in baseball and get beat.