CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

[font="Book Antiqua"]Two threads in the past 10 minutes. I need a life.

Anyway though, I know this is a stupid question, but it's something that's always confused me and I'm kind of a new Christian. Are God and Jesus the same being? If so then why is it said that God sent His only son to save us? Why would it not just be said He came down himself to save us? Sorry if this is considered a controversal subject or offends someone. I'm just genuinely confused on the matter. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box sadly enough. [/font]

Well, how I've always learned it is that its technically a yes. Its the Holy Trinity: The Father, The son and the Holy Spirit. Thats what God is explained as in the Bible. And how I see it, it's not quite either way. God is bigger than time and space and way larger than our understanding of the universe. So, I dont think humans can truly fathom the meaning of it. Thats just my view on it. ^_^

It depends on how you interpret the Bible and varies across religious groups.

For most Christian denominations, the answer is yes.

For some Christian denominations, the answer is "sort of."

For a small number of Christian denominations, and non-Christians, the answer is "no."

Nate (post: 1440403) wrote:It depends on how you interpret the Bible and varies across religious groups.

For most Christian denominations, the answer is yes.

For some Christian denominations, the answer is "sort of."

For a small number of Christian denominations, and non-Christians, the answer is "no."

Im in the sort of category. XD I just think we can never truly know. Its just beyond us tiny humans. lol

A scripture justifying the 'yes' answer:

John 1:1-3,14 (NIV) wrote:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made]
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

TopazRaven (post: 1440399) wrote:[font="Book Antiqua"]Two threads in the past 10 minutes. I need a life.

Anyway though, I know this is a stupid question, but it's something that's always confused me and I'm kind of a new Christian. Are God and Jesus the same being? If so then why is it said that God sent His only son to save us? Why would it not just be said He came down himself to save us? Sorry if this is considered a controversal subject or offends someone. I'm just genuinely confused on the matter. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box sadly enough. [/font]

I'm not the brightest crayon either, don't worry. I'm going to divide this into segments and give my personal answer for each question, so
a) Yes, I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely different facets of the same being.
b) God had to send his son because if he really destroyed himself, There would be no one to lead and all love in the world would be lost. He had to have a way to sacrifice himself without really destroying himself, so he sent the son, a part of himself, to earth to die for us.
c) I have heard it said that he came himself. If we are to believe that Jesus is God, then that would mean he DID come himself. And I do believe Jesus is God, so I believe he did come himself.
Now what's really confusing is discussing the specifics of Athanasian doctrine, the belief that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. I still haven't figured that out. I accept it though, because I see no other way. He is God, you know. Too many people try to define a non-human being in human terms.

Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of. What is shameful is being confused and not admitting it for the sake of pride.

Hope I didn't bore you too much and thanks for listening. Hope I helped!:thumb:

KougaHane (post: 1440406) wrote:I'm not the brightest crayon either, don't worry. I'm going to divide this into segments and give my personal answer for each question, so
a) Yes, I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely different facets of the same being.
b) God had to send his son because if he really destroyed himself, There would be no one to lead and all love in the world would be lost. He had to have a way to sacrifice himself without really destroying himself, so he sent the son, a part of himself, to earth to die for us.
c) I have heard it said that he came himself. If we are to believe that Jesus is God, then that would mean he DID come himself. And I do believe Jesus is God, so I believe he did come himself.
Now what's really confusing is discussing the specifics of Athanasian doctrine, the belief that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. I still haven't figured that out. I accept it though, because I see no other way. He is God, you know. Too many people try to define a non-human being in human terms.

Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of. What is shameful is being confused and not admitting it for the sake of pride.

Hope I didn't bore you too much and thanks for listening. Hope I helped!:thumb:

You make a good point my friend. lol

Ok, thanks everyone! My question has pretty much been answered then.

youre welcome! ^_^

This was actually a big controversy in the early church. There was one line of thought known as Arianism(not to be confused with Hitler's Aryanism) which believed that Christ was a created being. They mostly consisted of Germanic tribes such as the Goths and Vandals. The Roman church believed in the Trinity. Thus in the First Council of Nicea in 325, it was decided that the Scriptures declared that Jesus was part of the Trinity. Arianism was condemned as heresy.


The doctrine of the Trinity teaches that God is one but he is made up of three, God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost.

The doctrine of the Trinity teaches that God is one but he is made up of three, God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost.

Also, each of the three are fully God, not 1/3 of God. That's how Jesus is 100% man and 100% God.

Yamamaya (post: 1440421) wrote:This was actually a big controversy in the early church. There was one line of thought known as Arianism(not to be confused with Hitler's Aryanism) which believed that Christ was a created being. They mostly consisted of Germanic tribes such as the Goths and Vandals. The Roman church believed in the Trinity. Thus in the First Council of Nicea in 325, it was decided that the Scriptures declared that Jesus was part of the Trinity. Arianism was condemned as heresy.


The doctrine of the Trinity teaches that God is one but he is made up of three, God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost.

Pretty much, also, as an extra bit of interesting information, during the time of the early church, most groups had trouble accepting that Jesus was fully human and actually had no problem with the idea of his deity. The idea stemmed from Greek philosophy and its devaluing of nature. I could go on but I've already gotten off topic and pretty much everything that I would say about this topic has been said.

Peanut (post: 1440443) wrote:Pretty much, also, as an extra bit of interesting information, during the time of the early church, most groups had trouble accepting that Jesus was fully human and actually had no problem with the idea of his deity. The idea stemmed from Greek philosophy and its devaluing of nature. I could go on but I've already gotten off topic and pretty much everything that I would say about this topic has been said.

Yup the very idea of a deity assuming flesh was disgusting to the Greek mind.

There are a few other theories on the Trinity that I know.

The main one is that the Trinity are one and the same.

The other one,Tri Theism says that the Trinity is three separate people with a single goal and mind.

I've read this whole thread and don't disagree with anyone. But I did have a question.

Didn't Jesus say something about when he was going up to heaven to be seated on the right side of his Father? Or am I getting verses mixed up?

I don't want to cause a stir, just curious if someone had a link where I can research that further. PM is fine too.

SailorDove (post: 1440451) wrote:I've read this whole thread and don't disagree with anyone. But I did have a question.

Didn't Jesus say something about when he was going up to heaven to be seated on the right side of his Father? Or am I getting verses mixed up?

I don't want to cause a stir, just curious if someone had a link where I can research that further. PM is fine too.

This isn't a bad place to ask about that since it is sort of related. Going off the top of my head, Jesus does say that though I can't remember the exact verse (I think its in Acts...). The imagery is meant to prove his authority since, in those days, being seated at the right hand of an individual was considered a place of honor at the very least and in the case of Kings, power. While I'm not sure if this is the origin of this, the phrase "right hand man" captures this idea. Hope that helps.

Nate (post: 1440403) wrote:It depends on how you interpret the Bible and varies across religious groups.

For most Christian denominations, the answer is yes.

For some Christian denominations, the answer is "sort of."

For a small number of Christian denominations, and non-Christians, the answer is "no."

I am most certainly one of the last; no ands, ifs or buts about it. =)

I just spent several minutes typing up my views on it for this thread, but I don't want to stir up a debate or anything, so I deleted what I wrote. =) If you are interested in hearing my views on this subject, TopazRaven, feel free to PM me.

SailorDove, Stephen sees Jesus standing on the right hand of God before his martyrdom in Acts 7:55-56. But I seem to recall Jesus himself saying something about it as well...I don't have my Bible with me at the moment, but I'll look into it when I can and see if I can find anything. =)

From how it's always been explained, yes, but they are different entities in one, or a "Three in One" they are all together the same, yet all separate. So yes, but no. We are not going to fully understand because it is something of greater power than we will ever see, so this is the best I can offer.

Thank you Peanut & Cadence! Both points were quite helpful.

Forgot that moment with Stephen seeing Jesus before his stoning. Kinda knew about the honor part, yet the authority part was enlightening.

I don't believe that anywhere in the Bible is it mentioned about Jesus sitting at the right hand of God except that one verse in Acts. However, I could be mistaken.

The Bible has a lot of evidence for both sides, funny enough. In Isaiah 45 and 46, God makes it very clear and repeatedly says He's it. A good example is part of 46:9 in which God says, "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me."

In the NT, there's still a lot of evidence for both sides. For example, the famous verse where Jesus says "Before Abraham was born, I am!" The "I am" there of course being a phrase that only God Himself is supposed to use. However, this must be reconciled with other verses where Jesus prays to God and says "Not my will, but yours be done" and crying out on the cross "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" If Jesus and God were the same, how could Jesus have a different will from God? How could God forsake Himself?

This is further complicated by stuff like 1 Corinthians 15, in which it says everything is under Christ, who is under God. It says very specifically that Christ is subject to God in verse 28, "When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him [God]." How can God be subject to Himself?

Even worse, Mark 13 has Jesus saying about the end of the world, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." If Jesus is God, how can Jesus not know the day or hour if God knows? By virtue of being God Jesus would HAVE to know the day and hour, unless they are two separate beings.

But again, as I said, the NT also offers proof that Jesus is God, such as the verse Midori posted, the "I am" statement, as well as other verses where Jesus says stuff like "If you have met me, then you have met my Father."

So it's a lot more complicated than most Christians would have you believe, and the only answer most of them can give is "Well it's a mystery." Which may be true but it certainly isn't helpful.

I like your questions, Nate. I think you'd benefit a lot from further studying the Bible. Look up people like N.T. Wright and Gordon Fee. They're great scholars in the evangelical camps, which I think people here would appreciate.

I know Jesus mentioned that He'd be seen sitting at the right hand of the Father. It was during His trial, when questioned by the high priest. I believe it's Matthew's gospel, if not Luke's.

Carla is right, now that someone gave a book. In Matthew 26 at least, in verse 64 Jesus says "From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

So there you go.

i may be wrong, but didn't Jesus say "if you have seen me you have seen the father"

KougaHane (post: 1440406) wrote:I'm not the brightest crayon either, don't worry. I'm going to divide this into segments and give my personal answer for each question, so
a) Yes, I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely different facets of the same being.
b) God had to send his son because if he really destroyed himself, There would be no one to lead and all love in the world would be lost. He had to have a way to sacrifice himself without really destroying himself, so he sent the son, a part of himself, to earth to die for us.
c) I have heard it said that he came himself. If we are to believe that Jesus is God, then that would mean he DID come himself. And I do believe Jesus is God, so I believe he did come himself.
Now what's really confusing is discussing the specifics of Athanasian doctrine, the belief that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. I still haven't figured that out. I accept it though, because I see no other way. He is God, you know. Too many people try to define a non-human being in human terms.

Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of. What is shameful is being confused and not admitting it for the sake of pride.

Hope I didn't bore you too much and thanks for listening. Hope I helped!:thumb:

LadyRushia (post: 1440431) wrote:Also, each of the three are fully God, not 1/3 of God. That's how Jesus is 100% man and 100% God.

Ella Edric (post: 1440402) wrote:Well, how I've always learned it is that its technically a yes. Its the Holy Trinity: The Father, The son and the Holy Spirit. Thats what God is explained as in the Bible. And how I see it, it's not quite either way. God is bigger than time and space and way larger than our understanding of the universe. So, I dont think humans can truly fathom the meaning of it. Thats just my view on it. ^_^

armeckthefirst (post: 1440592) wrote:i may be wrong, but didn't Jesus say "if you have seen me you have seen the father"

^All of the above XD

It's a mystery, indeed, but we really can't even begin to describe God for what He is - we can only compare Him with what He is not. After all, it's impossible to describe the substance of God. What in comparison do we possibly have that can create something out of "nothingness"? What is "nothingness"? What is God? ... Um, God. We can describe aspects of God that are evidenced in this world, but we'll have to wait to be in heaven before we understand the mystery a little bit better. Not that we can't piece a lot together already, but what we can piece together is practically nothing in comparison to all that there is to know about God.

In conclusion, yes, Jesus is God, no, we don't have a good explanation how.

Wow, so many sensiable answers! I think I understand in least a little better now. Thanks again everyone!

Blipin' wrote:In conclusion, yes, Jesus is God, no, we don't have a good explanation how.

Love it. XD

Yes they are the same and we will never understand it completely till we get to heaven

Yay! Fun subject! I'm not going to go to in depth just because of the controversy it may cause if I do...That being said I'll jump in and give my two cents.

Yes God and Jesus are the same. The trinity is the view of God that says he is made of three distinct persons who are unified in existence and essence, they are all one God, but three different persons...It's hard to understand, I know.

Basically there is God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. God works as the creator and overseer, Jesus is the aspect that has direct contact with humanity and works as the mediator -lawyer if you will- on our behalf so that God doesn't count us guilty for treason with our sins, (Basically Jesus died for our sins to appease God the fathers wrath over sin, which God the father sent Jesus so we could be made holy in his sight) and then there's the Holy Spirit who works as the comforter, teacher, enlightener...Basically he's the person of God who works through us to give us more knowledge of God, and he's the one who is there for our encouragement.

This is a very inadequate and very shortened explanation (there have been books of hundreds and hundreds of pages written that are still inadequate.) But I hope this gives you the very basic overview of the doctrine of the trinity.

Which I would add is extremely evident throughout the bible if you study diligently, like in Genisis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness".

If you have any more questions feel free to pm me (or objections as well...)

Yes and No. They are part of the trinity and all are connected, but are all somewhat separate. It is a paradox.