CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/06/18/el-shaddai-is-a-visual-gift-from-heaven.aspx

I'm very suspicious of this I mean. It has a great director, but I mean it's based on a "lost book" of the Bible, and one of the main angels names is lucifel

now from what I hear, not to sure, but just from what i hear japanese tend to mix thier english l's and r's in pronounciation. For example , Hetalia Axis Powers (english translation)and Hetaria Akushisu Pawāzu (Japanese name)

So if the guys name in japanese is Lucifel, then it can very well be Lucifer their talking about here when translated.

But that's just me. What's your take on it?

Hmm...it could be good but I'd have to know more about how the combat system works. I know the article compares it to Prince of Persia, but...I've never played a PoP game. YES I KNOW I KNOW. I'm just more interested in RPGs!

If nothing else, it looks good...but hey, that's to be expected from the people who did Viewtiful Joe and Okami. Just again, I dunno about the combat, especially since the dude said they're keeping it to only one attack button. That could be a bit tricky, and implies no special moves, or at the worst, having to do some crazy direction + button combos for certain moves. I dunno. Need a gameplay trailer!

Sounds cool I guess. Only thing I don't like is that it sounds like it's going to have that "you can never die, you only get rewind'd" thing which kinda takes out all the difficulty.

And I would totally fight with a pixelated Lucifer before the fall if that's what it is. That just sounds BA.

I'd be more excited about this game if the japanese didn't tend to totally murder Christian belief whenever they try to portray it. From mixing reincarnation in to making God out to be an uncaring authority figure with lame limits at best, to an evil being that has to be killed so humanity can progress at worst. I'm just a bit too jaded by Christianity's treatment so far to feel anything but apprehension about this.

I'm in Raven's boat. This looks like nothing but trouble for me. FFT got granfathered in by existig before I really gave these sort of things a serious thought...

Um, I'm confused.

The book of Enoch isn't in the Bible, right? Like pretty much no Christian or Jewish groups consider it to be canon.

This game is based on the book of Enoch.

So how is this offensive to Christians or bashing Christian beliefs when it isn't based on anything Christians believe? I mean if it was based on Genesis or Judges, then okay, sure, whatever. But it's based on something that isn't in the Bible.

Whatever. Now I'll probably buy this game even if it sucks.

Found a trailer: Here.

Looks very like Okami as far as some of the gameplay goes. Like being in a closed-in area during fighting and the fighting itself. Then of course the visuals. It looks interesting at least. I kinda hope it'll come out for Wii too but I doubt it.

I'm with Nate on this. Nowhere does this advertise itself as a Christian game so I really don't understand the paranoia at all.

Oooh, I like the music a lot. Very good music. And of course the visuals are fantastic!

But, I'm still not sold on the combat. I'll need to know exactly how combat works before I can get really excited over it. I mean it LOOKS cool, but I want to know how it works, mechanics-wise.

That weapon looked cool at first but as the trailer went on I was like "Okay this weapon actually looks kind of dumb now." It seems really unwieldy, why would you use a weapon like that? I mean it seems like it's a storyline reason but it's still kinda dumb.

EDIT: Out of mere curiosity, I googled some of the stuff from the trailer, and it's pretty rad. Samyaza is apparently a fallen angel in Enoch, one of the Grigori (Watchers), and the name means "infamous rebellion." So, some say that Samyaza could be another name for Satan, but others say they're two different beings (since Satan was "cast out" but Samyaza "fell").

So anyway Samyaza's sin (along with other Grigori) was apparently having lust for human women. So they came down, impregnated mortal women, and that's supposedly the origin of the Nephilim...y'know, those weird dudes mentioned in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13 that aren't really explained in the Bible itself (since they're more Jewish folklore). So they created the Nephilim and taught humans how to wage war, and God got mad, so He told Gabriel to make them destroy themselves. So they did, and afterwards, humanity was so corrupt that God made the flood to wipe out the last remnants of the Grigori's influence.

Samyaza has apparently been in gaming before, as Shemhazai from Final Fantasy XII and Tactics A2 is another translation of Samyaza...and in XII she was the one who got the second most powerful attack in the game, Soul Purge, which could do 60,000 damage.

Samyaza is also apparently in a few StarCraft maps, Heaven's Last Stand, Heaven's Last Defense, and Heaven's Final Hour, as "Tassadar." But I don't play StarCraft so I wouldn't know about that one.

Anyway pretty cool stuff.

As far as the weapon goes, I kind of thought It looked like Jessica Biel's weapon in Blade 3. XD

For me it just don't feel right fighting along side lucifer in a videogame, if said character is him, but that's how I feel personally.

As far as it being not advertised as a christian game, I understand but I'm just a bit concerned that what some person, who doesn't know what this game is about, and is a fairly new believer, gets the game.

As far as the weapon goes, I kind of thought It looked like Jessica Biel's weapon in Blade 3. XD

I never did see that movie. Then again I never did see the first Blade movie all the way through. I thought it was a bow at first...

For me it just don't feel right fighting along side lucifer in a videogame

Who wouldn't want to fight with a morning star? Though I prefer a good broadsword. Or maybe a warhammer.

It looks pretty nice, the visuals are rather good and the soundtrack is particularly nice. Kind of looks a little bit like Prince of Persia (the new one) which is quite a good game.

Nate (post: 1402926) wrote:I never did see that movie. Then again I never did see the first Blade movie all the way through. I thought it was a bow at first...

eehh.. It's ok. not the greatest movie though. I hope Ryan Reynold does a better job in the deadpool movie coming up though. I so want it to be in 3-d so he could stop in the middle of a fight, "grab someone's popcorn", and go right back to the fight XD

Nate (post: 1402926) wrote:Who wouldn't want to fight with a morning star? Though I prefer a good broadsword. Or maybe a warhammer.

I've seen it not really too fond of morningstars but that's depending, I'm more of a katana guy, or if the character has a really creative weapon, but this one kind of looks weird.

As to the comment you had at first but for some reason deleted o_O

I do agree that some people see it as just entertainment, and it should be seen as such, some people struggle with that. Which brings us back to the 'Anime and Spirits' thread. But since all that can be said there can be applied here. I guess that's that.

Nate wrote:So how is this offensive to Christians or bashing Christian beliefs when it isn't based on anything Christians believe? I mean if it was based on Genesis or Judges, then okay, sure, whatever. But it's based on something that isn't in the Bible.

firestorm (post: 1402938) wrote:I do agree that some people see it as just entertainment, and it should be seen as such, some people struggle with that. Which brings us back to the 'Anime and Spirits' thread. But since all that can be said there can be applied here. I guess that's that.

Yeah, Romans 14 and all that; I think it'd be best to move on with the topic. XD

Nate (post: 1402903) wrote:Um, I'm confused.

The book of Enoch isn't in the Bible, right? Like pretty much no Christian or Jewish groups consider it to be canon.

This game is based on the book of Enoch.

So how is this offensive to Christians or bashing Christian beliefs when it isn't based on anything Christians believe? I mean if it was based on Genesis or Judges, then okay, sure, whatever. But it's based on something that isn't in the Bible.

Whatever. Now I'll probably buy this game even if it sucks.

You're kinda missing the point here Nate. It doesn't matter that it's fiction. It can still throw a bad light on Christian belief. It would be the same if somebody made a game out of, let's say, the Screwtape letters and then twisted it around to mock/tear down Christianity. I mean, it's dealing with Christian subjects and chararacters for crying out loud. Or course it can bash Christian belief. And....if you wanna buy the game even if it sucks cuz of my comments then....okay. Isn't that kinda like hurting yourself though ><?

I'll wait till some people here buy the game to be sure myself. I'm just not holding high hopes considering Japan's track record dealing with Christianity.

FFT got granfathered in by existig before I really gave these sort of things a serious thought...

Yeah, same here man. I loved the game back in the day, but I just can't bring myself to play it now

Chosen Raven (post: 1403154) wrote:It doesn't matter that it's fiction.

So we take fiction like it's non-fiction now? How can it bash Christianity if the Christianity in it isn't the real form of Christianity?

And again, this is not a Christian game and is based on a book that is not in the Christian Bible. I honestly don't get it.

While the game looks interesting enough I'm not much for the crazy abstract style of the environments. Who knows, maybe I'll pick it up some time and I'll be blown away, but I've got other things to be interested in right now.

[quote="Radical Dreamer (post: 1402977)"]Yeah, Romans 14 and all that]
I'll just reiterate. We should probably stay on topic.

Chosen Raven (post: 1403154) wrote:You're kinda missing the point here Nate. It doesn't matter that it's fiction. It can still throw a bad light on Christian belief. It would be the same if somebody made a game out of, let's say, the Screwtape letters and then twisted it around to mock/tear down Christianity. I mean, it's dealing with Christian subjects and chararacters for crying out loud. Or course it can bash Christian belief. And....if you wanna buy the game even if it sucks cuz of my comments then....okay. Isn't that kinda like hurting yourself though ><?

You know just wanted to say I would have picked something else instead of the Screwtapes letters cause the screwtape letters we know is christian, on the other hand the book of Enoch (the non-canon book their talking about) we can't completely be certain about. I'd use another example like another book that we also cannot be sure about. Still I get your point. and I think that you can hurt yourself by playing it if you let it do that to ya.

But can you blame them when they don't know? I don't know how popular christianity is in Japan but I'm sure it's in the minority. So really all they have to go on is what they see in western movies and television and maybe if they find biblegateway.com or something (more likely through movies and television.) So they kind of have a tainted view on what christianity really is. I mean I'm sure there are missionaries over there. But western Hollywood portraying christianity the way it does doesn't really help them understand it clearly ya know?[/quote]

Chosen Raven (post: 1403154) wrote:I'll wait till some people here buy the game to be sure myself. I'm just not holding high hopes considering Japan's track record dealing with Christianity.



Yeah, same here man. I loved the game back in the day, but I just can't bring myself to play it now

I agree that would be a smart thing to do. I'd wait as well

What I was trying to get to earlier. Is that not everyone views like you and I do Chosen Raven . somepeople, Not all people, Try to see things more as entertainment than anything else. Now you still have to be careful what you watch. But if you don't let it get to you, then you won't be affected by it. Of course that doesn't mean that you can watch anything you want. There are somethings that you just shouldn't watch.

I think that is what nate and crimson are trying to get at. They are trying to view it more as entertainment. Now I still somewhat struggle with that But I do agree in a sense. I'm more a middle ground kind of guy. I'm careful with what I watch but I don't let it get to me if something not that Important comes up, like a cuss word, or something about that anime's or game's beliefs that I know is completely false.

Hopefully that clarifies some things.

mastersquirrel (post: 1403171) wrote:While the game looks interesting enough I'm not much for the crazy abstract style of the environments. Who knows, maybe I'll pick it up some time and I'll be blown away, but I've got other things to be interested in right now.


I'll just reiterate. We should probably stay on topic.

lol I must apologize then. In all honesty, I kinda posted this with a duel purpose 1.) being talking about the game. 2) being to see what nate would say about it. Sorry for stoking the fire XD

I'll keep my statements brief, so as to keep this thread off of debate. I want this to stay a thread about the game.

Chosen Raven wrote:I mean, it's dealing with Christian subjects and chararacters for crying out loud. Or course it can bash Christian belief.

I had a friend in the Navy who was Norse pagan. Like, for real. Not in an ironic sense or anything, he really did believe in the stuff like Ragnarok and Odin and Loki and whatnot.

He was never offended or upset by how Final Fantasy portrayed Odin, or how Loki acted in Marvel Comics, or how they were made as deities in teh Forgotten Realms setting in D&D, or games like Valkyrie Chronicles. And yet all of it was composed of stuff from his religion, and all of them portrayed it wrongly.

If a non-Christian can calmly accept that people that do not believe in his religion view it mythologically, why can't we?

And....if you wanna buy the game even if it sucks cuz of my comments then....okay. Isn't that kinda like hurting yourself though ><?

Not really, it'll be what, 60 bucks tops when it comes out? And if it sucks, I just trade it back in to Gamestop for like 20 bucks store credit, or maybe 30 if I'm lucky. I'm not so broke that losing out on 40 bucks is going to hurt me.

At any rate, it certainly can't be a worse purchase than Valkyria Chronicles! Man I hated that game.

2) being to see what nate would say about it.

Wait, this thread was created with the sole intent of baiting me to post in it? SERIOUSLY?



Anyway...

As to the comment you had at first but for some reason deleted o_O

Oh so you did see it. XD I deleted it because that comment wouldn't have led anywhere good. It was flat-out rude and so I took it out.

I do agree that some people see it as just entertainment, and it should be seen as such, some people struggle with that. Which brings us back to the 'Anime and Spirits' thread. But since all that can be said there can be applied here. I guess that's that.

Hmm. Y'know, you bring up a good point. People are bothered, I guess, by some Buddhist stuff and whatnot in anime so...even though Enoch isn't Christian, and has really nothing to do with Christianity, people could still be bothered by it, just like they get bothered by the other stuff. I don't see that as "insulting" to Christianity, but I do see how people might be uncomfortable playing it.

Not me though. The only game I ever felt uncomfortable playing was Unlimited SaGa. I felt uncomfortable because it was the worst game I ever played! Seriously, that game is bad. SO bad.

I don't know how popular christianity is in Japan but I'm sure it's in the minority.

Christianity is quite popular in Japan. There just aren't many Christians.

That may sound contradictory, but think about it. Greek paganism is popular in America. We've got stuff like Clash of the Titans, and Percy Jackson, and games like God of War...Greek paganism is hugely popular! But how many Greek pagans are there in America? Not very many I'd wager.

So Christianity is popular. They view it the same way we view Greek paganism--as really cool mythology. And, just as we take Greek paganism and change around some details so it's cooler (like with God of War), so too do they do the same with Christianity.

I feel like this has been discussed on the boards before. But I couldn't tell you any specific threads. XD

So we take fiction like it's non-fiction now? How can it bash Christianity if the Christianity in it isn't the real form of Christianity?

The author of the Book of Enoch definitely had a positive view of Christianity. This isn't some out of left field book that takes a dim view of Christianity. Heck, one verse of it was quoted in Jude. Just look at it the same way you look at the Screwtape Letters. Written by a believer with the intent to promote Christian beliefs. But, think about it, Not only does it not matter if it's fiction, it doesn't matter if the game was based on any religious text whatsoever. The game has God, Michael, Lucifer and other Christian characters in it. God is kinda center to Christian belief heh. If he is portrayed in a negative light, then yes, it is bashing Christianity. I take it kinda personally when some one bashes God, don't you?

Once again, I hope to God that Christianity is portrayed in a positive light. The game looks pretty fudgin awesome. I also kinda like what I've read about it's sense of humor. I'm just not gonna get my hopes up.

You know just wanted to say I would have picked something else instead of the Screwtapes letters cause the screwtape letters we know is christian, on the other hand the book of Enoch (the non-canon book their talking about) we can't completely be certain about.

Even if the entire book isn't true (some theologians think there are some true passages here and there), the book is undeniably pro-Christian. And the way it talks about and names some fallen angels reminds me of the Screwtape letters a bit.

They are trying to view it more as entertainment. Now I still somewhat struggle with that But I do agree in a sense. I'm more a middle ground kind of guy. I'm careful with what I watch but I don't let it get to me if something not that Important comes up, like a cuss word, or something about that anime's or game's beliefs that I know is completely false.

To an extent, I view it just as entertainment as well. A cuss word here and there or a totally made up belief system that has nothing to do with Christianity doesn't really bother me. It's portraying God and Christianity in a bad light that gets my goat.

But can you blame them when they don't know? I don't know how popular christianity is in Japan but I'm sure it's in the minority. So really all they have to go on is what they see in western movies and television and maybe if they find biblegateway.com or something (more likely through movies and television.)

I can blame them because they can do the research. They can make an effort to find out. When some one bases a film or game or what-have-you on a belief system, they tend to research it. From what I've seen, the Japanese just seem to be doing what you say they are. Going on movies and television. You're right about Christianity being in the minority of course. Bout 1% actually. It's growing, but slow. Crazy slow

I had a friend in the Navy who was Norse pagan. Like, for real. Not in an ironic sense or anything, he really did believe in the stuff like Ragnarok and Odin and Loki and whatnot.

Man, I had a college professor who believed in the exact same thing. Course, he said he believed in it cuz he liked the idea of scantily clad ladies taking him to Valhalla when he died so.....

If a non-Christian can calmly accept that people that do not believe in his religion view it mythologically, why can't we?

I believe we have a responsibility to defend our faith. If somebody says something false about our beliefs, and we say nothing about it, aren't we just helping the lie along? This is a game that is most likely gonna get ALOT of attention, so if it portrays us in a bad light, a ton of people are gonna take it to heart. Well told stories tend to change peoples minds, that's why Jesus spoke in parables. I think Christians now a days tend to sit back on the sidelines far too often. We and the world itself are worse off for it.

I'll just reiterate. We should probably stay on topic.

Sorry for the derailing of the topic there. Just felt the need to defend my view. I'll shut up now, y'all can have the last word.

Chosen Raven wrote:The author of the Book of Enoch definitely had a positive view of Judaism.

Fixed that for you. Remember, the book of Enoch was part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and has been dated to be written between 300 BC and the first century BC.

The game has God, Michael, Lucifer and other Christian characters in it.

The game has Lucifel in it. With an L. Not an r. Although as firestorm stated originally, r and l are (to an extent) interchangeable in Japanese, there's the fact that the main bad guy in this is Samyaza, who is thought to be another name of Satan...meaning that Lucifel is not intended to be Satan.

Course, he said he believed in it cuz he liked the idea of scantily clad ladies taking him to Valhalla when he died so.....

How come all the other religions get the cool stuff? :l

Well, everything else aside, the game has a cool looking art style and the combat looks fun.

Guys, I posted a warning to change the topic nine whole posts ago, and only a few of you even bothered to follow that warning (and some of you only after you said your final words on the subject). When we tell you to change the topic, we mean it. Thread locked.