The SUIKODEN Thread

[Tommy]

Anyways, I am pretty much enjoying my first (and I heard its the worst) Suikoden game, Suikoden IV.

I love the plot and I love how its basically like an anime YOU control.
The only real problum I have with the game is the fact its amazingly short, and I'm done and I have like 11 characters out of 108 and how the main character is a mute.

Can you please number the greatest to least of the Suikoden games and label oldest to newewst, timeline wise. Like, I heard Suikoden IV is the first in the series timewise.

Which one should I play next?

Are I and II worth playing for 100$ or is reading the script enough?

[uc pseudonym]

Actually, I was considering renting Suikoden IV because I've heard good things about it. Why IV? Because I can get it for free, unlike V, and the store with this offer isn't good enough to actually have the older games. I'd be very curious to hear what others have to say about how good the game is.

Tom, how long did it take you to beat the game? Because I don't want to waste a rental on something I'll be able to finish in less than twenty hours.

[Tommy]

I started it about 5 days ago I believe.

EDIT: I haven't beat it YET, but I know I'm near the end.

[everdred12a]

As a huge Suiko fanatic, I'll be glad to help you!

In chronological order (excluding Suikoden 5, Suiko-gaiden, Suiko-gaiden 2, and Suikoden Tactics, which I haven't played)

IV: Suikoden 4 is the first in the series chronologically, and it chronicles the Island Liberation War, and it features the True Runes of Punishment and The Souleater, also known as the True Rune of Life and Death.

I: Suikoden 1 is the second (US release-wise), chronologically. Suikoden 1 chronicles the Scarlet Moon Empire War (also known as the Gate Rune War), and features the True Runes Souleater, The Front Gate Rune, The Back Gate Rune, The Blue Moon Rune, The Dragon Rune, The Night Rune, The Eightfold Rune (though not directly mentioned), and The Soveriegn Rune.

II: Suikoden 2 is the third game. Suikoden 2 chronicles the Dunan Unification War and features The Rune of Beginning (divided into the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes), The Souleater, The Beast Rune, and The Eightfold Rune (again, not directly mentioned.

III: Suikoden 3 is the final game thus far, depicting The Second Firebringer War, and featured the True Earth, True Fire, True Lightning, True Water, and True Wind runes, as well as the Eightfold rune.

As far as your last question, I don't personally believe Suiko 1 is worth 100 bucks. I have no idea if it sells for that much on ebay, but that's a total ripoff. Suiko 1 is nowhere near as good as 2 (which is the game I measure the series by). Suikoden 2.... if I had played it and didn't own it, I would do my best to find a copy. I love that game. It's honestly, IMO, one of the best RPG's of all time.

UC, Suiko 4 lasts about 24 hours. Overall, I'd rank Suiko 4 as tied for second best in the series. To me, it felt like a return to the series' roots. I believe 3 to be the worst. No, the game isn't perfect. None of them are. But I'd say it's just as good as 1. It's definitely a good play. And the characters aren't so difficult to get... I don't see how you could have missed out on a good 100 characters, Tom.

[Tommy]

I just recently found out Suikoden V takes place after IV but before I.
I'll just read scripts because I don't care how good Suikoden II is, it can't be worth 200$.

[everdred12a]

It's not worth 200 bucks. You're absolutely right. Lots of games aren't worth as much as they are selling for. I don't think SO2 is worth 40 bucks, but I had to pay that much for it. And I certainly don't think FF7 is worth 100 bucks, but that's the way ebay's been going. Unfortunately, they just become rare games and the market jacks the prices waaay up. Is there anyone you can borrow it from or anything?

[Tommy]

Nope, I don't have any friends that play RPGs other than Pokemon.

[everdred12a]

Man, that's weak. I wish I could help you out. There is one gleam of hope, though. Sony is releasing a PSX emulator program for the PSP, and releasing a huge library of games for download (I assume it'll be pay to download), and I'd be willing to be that they'd put Suiko1 and 2 on the list.

[Tommy]

Too bad I don't have a PSP. I won't get one either until I save enough work money.

You know car insurance and work fees suck. Not that I'm paying for car insurance yet.

Back on topic...

[Zarn Ishtare]

Suiko 2 is the peak of the series, in my opinion.

And honestly? I liked alot of things about 3. Not the Mass Battles, or the Trinity Sight, or some of the other technicalities...but I liked it in general, the story line, and the emotion.

I loathe the animation for Suiko 4. It's a huge jump, for one, and all the people look...well, unhuman. And you can barely see the hero's lips! have you noticed? It looks like he's MJ or something.

That being said, Sukio 4 is not the worst of the games.

No, that honor goes to Suiko Tactics. That is by far, the absolute worst game I have ever seen with a Suikoden label on it.

I'm just hoping that we get something good out of Five, I haven't played it yet...

UC, the game is good...but frustrating. I don't know if its worth playing, but if your getting it free.....

[Tommy]

It's one of my favortite RPGs.

I heard V has surpassed II, actually.

[everdred12a]

Blasphemy. Hopefully, V will be good when I finally get around to playing it... but 2 will always have a special place with me xD

CHECK THIS OUT:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-PS-SUIKODEN-II-GAME_W0QQitemZ8277990026QQcategoryZ62053QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

This makes me wanna cry.... I would have bought this in a heartbeat.

[Tommy]

I am now overwhelmed with jealousy.

That was like, watching your girlfriend cheat on you, only it was like a video game cheating on you.

*throws up*

Well, I'll probably get it for a nifty price of 200 woolongs.

(I need to stop obsessing over Cowboy Bebop.)

[everdred12a]

I thought you said you'd never pay that much for it...?

[Tommy]

Oh, I would if it's as good as you say.

Compare to FF7.

[everdred12a]

I'll try to make a comparison as objectively as possible.

So, let's start with visuals.
FF7 Is a 3D game, while S2 is more of a top-down game, think like maybe FF6. FF7 had very good looking environments, though I think the character models outside of combat could use some work (what with the dumbellesque arms). The character models outside of combat are arguably better. Make the comparison yourself.

As you can see, the environments in 7 look better, but I think the characters in S2 look better, personally. FF7's cutscenes are also much better. The few cutscenes there are in S2 (there are only 3 or 4) aren't really anything impressive, to be honest.

Sound:
I'll go ahead and say that the sound in 7 is better. The music is much better as well. I can't really provide sound samples because I think it might be in some violation of law. But the music in 7 is much more epic, while the S2 music is much more period-fitting. There are lots of strings, and traditional Chinese- or Japanese sounding songs. The actual sound effects themselves aren't bad, though. Like 7, S2 doesn't feature voices.

Story:
This portion of my comparison is probably going to seem the most biast of all. I apologize in advance for that. But even though I'm not particularly fond of the FF7 story, from an objective point of view, I still have to give the nod to S2. Neither story is decidedly deep, but it seems like S2's is more fluid and is played out better, IMO.

Gameplay:
I can't really deliberate on this section, since it's nearly impossible to be objective about this. Gameplay preferences differ from person to person, so I'll just explain it as best I can. In normal battles, your party (consisting of up to six characters) fights against up to six enemies at once. The battle system is only pseudo-turn based. At the beginning of a round you input all your commands for your party, then the actions (both allied and enemy) are executed, determined by the speed stat. There is an attack option, a Rune option, and a Unite option, which allows for one character to unite with one or more for a more powerful attack (though not all characters can unite).
In a duel, you are presented with three actions (shown in the screenshot). The way they work are this - Defend beats Wild Attack. Wild Attack beats Attack. Attack beats Defend. Your opponent will open with some phrase (like "You will taste my blade!") and you then choose an action. You have to discern what your opponent's action will be based on his speech. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's tough. First one to lose all their HP loses.
Major conflicts are tactics-esque. You move on a grid area and you attack and whatnot. Each unit can hold 3 people, and certain Stars of Destiny can be added to your units and they will add Attack points, Defense points, or special abilities. There are infantry units (the basic type), calvary units (can move 2 spaces in stead of one), magic units (have extremely powerful ranged attacks but lower accuracy) and archery units (have same attack power as infantry, but can fight from a distance and have more accuracy than magic).
There are three types of combat in S2. There are normal fights (your random battles and such), duels, and major conflicts.
A duel screenshot

A major conflict screenshot

A normal battle screenshot

Characters
S2, like all the others, features 108 Stars of Destiny to collect. Of course, some have more characterization than others, and some characters just aren't very good. But there are good characters, and there are awesome characters. Not really much to say here, but it is always encouraged to collect all 108, because you get a better ending if you do, and you also get more powers for your main character's True Rune (the main character's name is Riou, though you can choose to name him whatever you want).

I hope this is helpful. I wholeheartedly believe that Suikoden 2 is in fair contention to be one of the best RPG's on the PSX. It's unfortunate that the game suffered from such low production and became so rare. I wouldn't shell out 200 bucks for it. Shop around first. Some decent ones I found:
http://product.half.ebay.com/Suikoden-II_W0QQitemZ340002913371QQprZ1436QQtgZvidetails
http://cgi.ebay.com/Suikoden-II-Complete-with-Manual-MINT-RARE-PS-RPG_W0QQitemZ150000491888QQihZ005QQcategoryZ62053QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Suikoden-II-Playstation_W0QQitemZ104753491173QQihZ020QQcategoryZ62053QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Just to get you started. Of course, these are just auctions, so some of them are bound to go up. The first one is from Half.com, which isn't a bad site either.

[Tommy]

I plan on playing Suikoden games in the following order:

Suikoden IV (thought I was almost done, but I have to go back and do stuff)
Suikoden V (Heard it was better than II and it takes place after IV and before I)
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Suikoden III

I may rent Tactics. I assume they will stop at Suikoden VII maybe?

Anyways, that was an awesome comparison.

EDIT: Check this bad boy out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUIKODEN-COLLECTION-PLAYSTATION-2-PS2-PSX-PS1-RARE_W0QQitemZ104753021093QQihZ020QQcategoryZ62053QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

l could buy the 2nd one for this much.

[everdred12a]

Where, may I ask, are you in IV?

I don't think they're going to stop at 7. I think the purpose of the (numerical) Suikoden games is to tell the story of the true runes. So far, they've only featured somewhere around 12 or 13 runes. I'm not sure if they'll ever go into detail on some of them (like the Circle Rune or the Soveriegn Rune or the Eightfold Rune). But I would think that they won't stop until they chronicled all 27 of them. I'd be willing to bet that they'll stop somewhere between 7 and 10, though. I don't know if they'll be able to stretch the series that far. They may continue, though. There are lots of things they could cover with some other games, like...

[SPOILER=Suikoden 1, 2, 3, and 4]How Jeane and Viki appear in both Suikoden IV and Suikoden I. Those games are set 100s of years apart, yet the characters are confirmed *not* to own True Runes and appear in both games... They could also feature Ted, who was the original owner of Souleater. There's a huge blank between S4 and S1, so they could probably make Ted a main character and cover Jeane and Viki in the process. They could also do something with Lazlo (the official name of the S4 main character) depicting what happens to him. Just as a note to anyone who doens't know - True Runes grant their owners immortality. So, since Lazlo survived the 'atonement' phase of the Rune of Punishment (the cutscenes that gave him new spells), he gets to live forever (assuming you collected all 108 stars). I'd also love to see more featuring the Howling Voice Guild, which is where Clive from S1 and S2 is from. I know his story is 'resolved' at the end of S2 is you play through it properly, but I think the Howling Voice Guild is cool, and I'd love to see some stuff with it xD And I'd love to see some Riou/Nanami/Jowy cameos as well. My dream for this series has been to have a game where all of the main characters from previous games are available. I'd love to toss Riou, Jowy, Geddoe, (Tir) McDohl, and maybe even some others into a party. That would be total annihiation![/SPOILER]

...And there's still the matter of Suikogaiden I and Suikogaiden II, both of which never released in America. I'd kind of like to play those games, as well. Hee, sorry for going off on a tangent like I did with those spoilers. Heh.... I was just talking about all kinds of cool stuff they could do, but there were some spoilers for people who haven't played through 1 and 2 yet.

Also, thanks. I hope the comparison thingy was helpful in some way.

EDIT: I think that's not a bad deal. The only issue I have with it is the lack of the cases and manuals for Suikodens 1 and 2. But if you're not a collector (like I am), then I guess it doesn't matter... lol, oh well.

EDIT (AGAIN): I just had an awesome idea. I'm going to do a S2 speed run. The reason? There's a special scene that you can see near the end of S2 if you beat the game in less than 24 hours of gameplay time *and* fulfill some special criteria. Of course, it's going to be extremely difficult to beat the game achieving both the good ending (you gotta get all 108 stars for the good ending) *and* the special scene. Above that, I won't take time to level up or hunt my special items (specifically the Wind Hat and the Double Beat rune, two GREAT items) and my goal is to beat the game in less than 20 hours. I have no idea if that's possible, though, because I've never gotten both the good ending and the special scene. I'll probably start playing later today, and I might post back with a progress report, too xD

[Tommy]

Now, other than graphics, compare Suikoden IV and II since I find Suikoden IV to be quite a stale RPG overall. The plot is okay, but it just seems like there is cleary something missing.

What are Suikogaidens?

In IV I have been recruiting random people all over the place.

The stradegy guide says to advance the story, go to the Pirate's Nest and you will verse Snowe in a naval battle. Unfortunately, nothing happens when I enter the Pirate's Nest.

[everdred12a]

Hmm... maybe try visiting Razril or something. I haven't played 4 in awhile, and I admit I don't know much about it compared to the first two. If Razril doesn't do anything, then just go sail around for awhile. I would recommend that you check out the Nay-Kobold settlement if you haven't already, because you can recruit Viki there. Viki is arguably one of the best characters you can get in *any* Suikoden game, even if you don't use her for combat (though she is a formidable mage). Viki has this neat ability called 'Blinking,' which allows you to instantly teleport to any location you've been to already, and she also presents you with the Blinking Mirror, which teleports you from any non-dungeon area back to your ship! You'll find her at the end of the mountain path, at the bridge that crosses into the Nay-Kobold settlement. She'll appear, then disappear. Go back into the Nay-Kobold settlement, then leave the area and she'll automatically approach you. Join her of course xD If also recommend visiting a few of the 'hidden' islands, if it will let you. Otherwise, just go sail around for awhile, mayby do a little leveling.

Suikogaiden 1 and 2 were games released on the PSX. They were sort of side story type games, as they didn't necessarily follow True Runes (I think). I don't know a whole lot about them, other than the fact that the Suikoden 3 character Nash was in one of the Suikogaidens. They were never released in America, and they probably never will be, unfortunately.

Um... let's see... 2 and 4.

Overall, I like 2's music and sound better, though (some of) the voices in 4 were neat addition. Of course, the main character is a mute, like all the others. But it doesn't really matter.
Umm, gameplay. I found the gameplay in S4 to be very similar to S2, though it's still not the same. The addition of the super attack (the one that only Lazlo can use... you know, it heals him and takes all your other character's turns... I forgot what it's called) is kind of neat, but I wasn't too cool on the 4 character limit.
The story in 4 is very true to the Suikoden series, though not as good as 2's IMO. 2 had a more emotional story... idk....
There were *definitely* some cool Stars in S4. Some of my favorites were Viki, Millay, Ted (YOU MUST GET TED NO MATTER WHAT. I COMMAND YOU), Mitsuba, and Snowe (Snowe looks *really* cool in his pirate uniform xD ). If you can manage to get at least most of them (you have to have 107 Stars to get Snowe, the 108th), you should be in okay shape for the final battle.

[MasterDias]

Yeah, Viki's a good mage. I used her a bunch in Suikoden III. Would have used her more in Suikoden V, but Zerase is too good not to use.

I'll probably pick up Suikoden IV eventually, for completeness sake at least. The weak reviews scared me away somewhat.

No, that honor goes to Suiko Tactics. That is by far, the absolute worst game I have ever seen with a Suikoden label on it.

Is Suikoden Tactics really that bad? The general consensus I got from forums and reviews and such was that it was a decent but not very difficult strategy RPG.
Gamespot and IGN gave it scores in the 7.0 range which are good scores in my book...

[everdred12a]

The thing I heard about S4 that killed it was that your characters can pretty much suck. The big deciding factor in the game is the rune system, which works very similar to the Rune Cannon system from S4, which is basically like Thunder beats Water, Water beats fire, etc...

So... Viki is in S5 as well? Lawl!

[Tommy]

Yeah, Viki's a good mage. I used her a bunch in Suikoden III. Would have used her more in Suikoden V, but Zerase is too good not to use.

I'll probably pick up Suikoden IV eventually, for completeness sake at least. The weak reviews scared me away somewhat.


Is Suikoden Tactics really that bad? The general consensus I got from forums and reviews and such was that it was a decent but not very difficult strategy RPG.
Gamespot and IGN gave it scores in the 7.0 range which are good scores in my book...

He meant worst OF THEM, not worse.

[everdred12a]

The thing I heard about S4 that killed it was that your characters can pretty much suck. The big deciding factor in the game is the rune system, which works very similar to the Rune Cannon system from S4, which is basically like Thunder beats Water, Water beats fire, etc...

So... Viki is in S5 as well? Lawl!

OOOPS! I was looking back over the last few posts, and I realized I have a bad typo in this post. It should read:
The thing I heard about *Tactics* that killed it was taht your characters can pretty much suck. The big deciding factorin the game is the rune system, which works cery similar to the Rune Cannon system from S4, which is basically like Thunder beats Water, Water beats fire, etc...

I just wanted to offer up that correction.

[Tommy]

So, I'm about to do the Final Engagement.

Tell me, how difficult is the final boss and how many characters do I need?

I'm striving to get Ted (must have 70 characters) and once I get him, I plan on facing the ending. Should I get all 108 SoDs, because I think there are some I have missed that are impossible to get.

Do I need to get Snowe? I sorta dislike him as a character. A complete coward.
Someone said something about him looking cool when he joins you?

[everdred12a]

Well... there's a lot to think about with the Final Engagement. First, you'll need 2 parties, both of which need to be strong. Hopefully you've got 8 people at or around level 50-55. They'll level up to 60 by the time you reach the end. I recommend bringing a healer with each party (someone with a Water Rune or a Flowing Rune works the best), and other than that some strong physical characters. One party won't have Lazlo in it, so you need to make sure to compensate with the other party. The boss you fight with your secondary party isn't too difficult really. Just keep everyone healed and you'll be fine. I don't really remember this party too well... I know I had Millay, Mitsuba, and Mizuki in this party, but that's all I can remember.

I do remember my main party quite well, though. This party consisted of Lazlo, Snowe, Ted, and Viki. Viki had a Flowing Rune and Ted had a Thunder Rune (because the S4 version of the Souleater was nowhere near as good as the S1 and S2 versions). Snowe and Lazlo were my physical guys. Ted attacked when he had exhausted all of his rune power, and Viki attacked unless she needed to heal. Um, not too much I can remember about this fight, honestly. Try to heal at about half HP or worse is the best advice I can give.

Snowe isn't really important to get... but getting Snowe unlocks the good ending of the game. He's an accomplished fighter. I didn't like his personality throughout the game, but his pirate outfit was too awesome to pass up xD Plus, he kinda reconciles everything once you do get him. You can find every outfit he had throughout the game by fishing them up using the two fisherman on the back of the Ship of Obel. There's something about how to do it in the codes section of the Gamefaqs S4 page. He's not necessary... but he's not bad, either.

You should be fine. This boss is nowhere near as hard as some of the previous Suikoden bosses (the 1 and 2 bosses were harder, IMO).

[kaji]

Suikoden! YES!

*composure*

The only good thing about Snowe is that him and Hero have a killer combo together. While it doesnt look great, it sure lands the dammage. Also he is the only character with changeable costumes. If you find them, you can change his cloths to the various outfits he wears through out the story.

Personally I didnt mind Suikoden IV, though I did not think it was as good as some of the others. My favorite part of the game is your option to end the game in the very beginning when you are first stranded on the little island. Just keep telling everyone that you want to stay and the game will go into a repetative cycle where everyday is the same and all the Character Pictures are replaced with comical pencil drawings. Fortunately you cannot save once you have reached this ending, so you cant ruin your game file. ^_^

My final party in S4 was... let me think... Ted, Hero, and... Well the others dont matter much. I think I had a support mage and Snowe, but anyone could really fill these spots. If you have Ted and Heros Runes Maxed out you can practially win the final battle with them alone.

I do recomend getting all the SoD. That is half the point of the game.

My favorite is still Suikoden 3, though II and I are cool because they carry the story almost imidiately into one another (with many returning characters). Well, not to mention that II does ROCK on its own. I have it on my PC, but dont tell anyone. ^_~

Suikoden 5 is very cool. There are a lot of things they added to the system that you dont see in many other RPGs. In addition to the return of the 6 Character party, you can also have 4 support characters to switch in and out of battle (or porvide support skills) as well as a new formation command that allows you to change your battle formation to focus on different strategies. Very cool and you can do all of it in the middle of battle.

Yes, this does add loads to the ammount of time you already spend in the menu customizing your party between 'outing', but its all worth the results.

So, what can I say. I love Suikoden.

[everdred12a]

So, what can I say. I love Suikoden.

Well said! I also agree with your advice on the final battle. It doesn't really matter who you bring, so long as they're leveled and have good equipment and refined weaponry.

[kaji]

I was honestly a bit disapointed with that battle. But "battle not a great game make."

Do you guys have any favorite characters or Rune combos for each game?

[everdred12a]

Characters? I gotta million of 'em xD (or... 108? xD )

Umm, lessee... I'll do it by game.

S1: I really liked Tir McDohl (also known simply as McDohl) even though he didn't really have any lines. Viki, as always xD Milich Oppenheimer was funny, as was Vincent DeBoule, Lorelai, Kasumi was good, I also like Sonya Shulen. Odessa was kinda cool, though so short lived (bad pun).

S2: Riou (the main character), Nanami, Clive (hence the Howling Voice Guild xD ), Meg, Wakaba, Viki xD, Humphrey, Kasumi, Vincent DeBoule xD, Bob, Lorelai, Kahn, and McDohl.

S3: I never beat S3. I didn't have the patience, so I can't really speak here.

S4: Mitsuba, Jewel, Viki xD, Snowe (ad the end of the game), Millay, Ted, Lino En Kuldes, Kika, Hervey, Sigurd, Reinbach XDDDDDD

I think that's it for characters... so favorite Runes.

Souleater. If you've played 1 or 2, you know why.
Darkness. It's like a commercially available lesser version of the Souleater.
Resurrection (S2 era, I don't remember the S1 version being too good). It has a good attack (Charm Arrow), an in-battle Resurrection spell (Yell) and a good recovery move (Scream).
Thunder. Like the Lightning rune, but since it's a higher order rune, it has Thor Shot (the title in S2), which is uber beefy.
Rage. The higher order Fire rune.
Flowing. The higher order Water rune.
Exertion. It increases your attack every time you attack.
Double-Beat. Allows you to attack twice, but if you get counter-attacked, you take double damage. I ususally give this to a ranged character to prevent the double damage.