Nintendo of Amercia doesn't care about its fans -_-

[cbwing0]

ust a question: Who really cares about 3rd party games? 90%+ of the time they suck horribly. Basing how well a console is doing on its 3rd party support is silly. 1st party and 2nd party produce much better games. There are exceptions to this. But most of the time a 3rd party game pales in comparisson to 1st party.

Let's see...other than the ones that Vyse listed, here are a few of the great 3rd-party games available for the PS2:

Gran Turismo 3 (and the upcoming 4)
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Splinter Cell
Final Fantasy (popular, although I wouldn't call them good)
Most sports games
Samurai Warriors (my personal favorite game at the moment)
Tekken series
Soul Calibur 2
Capcom vs. Snk
Twisted Metal: Black
Armored Core series
Dynasty Warriors

Not to mention Metal Gear 2 (and the upcoming 3), SOCOM, and many others.

If you honestly don't care about any of these great games, then I would have to say that the Gamecube was made for you .

[skynes]

Gran Turismo 3 (and the upcoming 4) - I dont care about
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time - I dont care about
Splinter Cell - I dont care about
Final Fantasy - I love. but not enough to be a PS2
Most sports games - I dont care about
Samurai Warriors - I dont care about
Tekken series- I dont care about
Soul Calibur 2 - I have this on GC. Calling it 3rsp arty is an insult. It far exceeds the avergae 3rd party game
Capcom vs. Snk - I dont care about
Twisted Metal: Black - I dont care about
Armored Core series - I dont care about
Dynasty Warriors - I dont care about

[cbwing0]

Then skynes, you are indeed the perfect Nintendo fan .

[uc pseudonym]

There is a large difference between not caring about games and said games being poor in quality, skynes.

But he does bring up a good point: Nintendo systems so far have had basically no loading times. Such will probably be fewer and fewer as the systems progress (though that could certainly be the new area of improvement like graphics are today), but they are very nice. Anyone who played the Chronicles of Riddick game knows about the horrors of loading times...

[MasterDias]

Soul Calibur 2, which was made by Namco, and released on all three systems is indeed third party.

I am a Nintendo fan but they aren't the only ones out there who can make quality games. Far from it. There are a lot of third-party games and franchises that are very good as well.

[madphilb]

I loved the N64 and the SNES. I loved the near instant loading. The ability to save to the cart WITHOUT having to buy a new memory card every few months to keep up with the game buying.

I played Shadowman years ago, thought it was a great game (bit darker than I usually play, but cool just the same).... when I mentioned it to other people they had tried it and thought it was bad.... problem was that all the people I spoke to had the Playstaion version, which had terrible loading times compared to the PC and N64 versions (the N64 version being almost instant load times).

In comparision too, N64 carts pre-owned are still selling at not much lower than the they where when they where sold new, mostly because they hold up better with time (no scratching and such).

[Fsiphskilm]

So you're wi

[skynes]

So you're wiling to pay double the price of a CD-Rom, with moderately less polygon counts, just for the sake of not having patients?

I actually see better quality in Cart games. It's not just the loading times, it's the ability to save ot the cart and NOT have to buy memory cards. And the fact that they do hold up better. I have my very first SNES game (Mario World) still in perfect condition. My First PS1 game? Forget it, long since destroyed

Wait a min.. even back in the day of Nintendo, RARE (a 3rd party?)

Where RARE not 2nd party?

Some 3rd Party developers know more about the graphical enhancments of a console than the 1st party does...

That is bogus. 100% Bogus. 3rd party developers rarely make games to the same standard as the 1st party. If the game is going on all 3 consoles they have to make the game fit the limitations of each consoles, therefore really dumbing its quality down.

am a Nintendo fan but they aren't the only ones out there who can make quality games. Far from it. There are a lot of third-party games and franchises that are very good as well.

I know they aren't the only ones that make good quality games, but their quality does exceed most other companies. Even look at the GBA. Look at a Nintendo made game - Metroid: Zero Mission. And look at some 3rd party ones. Big difference.

Wait a min... What game DO you like?

1st - Metroid
2nd - Final Fantasy
3rd - Megaman
4th - Zelda

------------------------
It's just occured to me that all the long standing older 3rd party companies produce high quality stuff, and the 'newer' 3rd partys suck... Is my mind gone or does that hold some truth?

[Yojimbo]

I'm not that impatient so an extra loading time doesn't really bother me. And what's the big deal with having to spend an extra $15-20 for a memory card? You can only have so many saves on one cart. You can have an dozens on a memory card. Also cart saves do not last forever you're lucky if they last logner than 5 years because most of them don't. Data on memory cards will last basically forever. Carts are outdated it's the same reason why we don't watch Laserdiscs or BETA tapes anymore.

[cbwing0]

1st - Metroid
2nd - Final Fantasy
3rd - Megaman
4th - Zelda

So that means two of your top 4 favorite games (Mega Man and Final Fantasy) are 3rd-party titles ]It's not just the loading times, it's the ability to save ot the cart and NOT have to buy memory cards. And the fact that they do hold up better. I have my very first SNES game (Mario World) still in perfect condition. My First PS1 game? Forget it, long since destroyed[/quote]
My first PS1 games is still in good working order. Longevity is determine largely by how well you care for your games, rather than inherent quality. Furthermore, cartridge saves are sustained by an internal battery, which will eventually go dead. When this happens, all of yours saves will be lost, and you won't be able to save again unless you perform some major surgery on the cart.

As Yojimbo said, buying memory cards is not that big of a pain. I used the same PS2 memory card for 3.5 years, without having to delete any saves to make room. Besides, cartridge saves aren't portable unless you have the exact cartridge, meaning that games like Armored Core (where two players load their mechs from their own memory cards) are impossible with cartridges. Loading times are not a big deal; in fact, the loading screen can often be useful for things like story text, mission briefings, etc.

Even look at the GBA. Look at a Nintendo made game - Metroid: Zero Mission. And look at some 3rd party ones. Big difference.

Then look at the Castlevania games for the GBA (from Konami, and 3rd-party developer). They are excellent games. The problem is that many companies just make generic platformers for the GBA to cash in on popular cartoon franchises. Either that, or they make dumbed-down ports of console titles for the GBA. For that reason, most 3rd-party GBA games aren't very good; however, there are still a few that stand out.

[skynes]

My problem with spending £20 on a memory card is that you have to buy multiple cards, they're small and easily lost and data is sooo easily corrupted its just not funny.

Also cart saves do not last forever you're lucky if they last logner than 5 years because most of them don't. Data on memory cards will last basically forever.

What are you on about? My SNES games are still 100% and they're over 10yrs old. Memory cards are ALSO battery powered which ALSO go dead.

3rd party developers rarely make games to the same standard as the 1st party

I was talking about the majority of 3rd party developers, Not the ones I like. I like them BECAUSE they make good quality games which is in contrast to a lot of 3rd parties.

meaning that games like Armored Core (where two players load their mechs from their own memory cards) are impossible with cartridges.

So instead of needing 2 game carts, you prefer 2 game carts and 2 memory cards... I see your logic. lol

The problem is that many companies just make generic platformers for the GBA to cash in on popular cartoon franchises.

This being a part of what I dislike about 3rd parties. Instead of being original (Capcom, Sqaure) they try to suck the life out of TV shows, Movies, Comics etc. and fail horribly.

[cbwing0]

I was talking about the majority of 3rd party developers, Not the ones I like. I like them BECAUSE they make good quality games which is in contrast to a lot of 3rd parties.

In that case, perhaps it would be better if you did not make such simplistic generalizations about 3rd-party developers. In reality, every company makes some bad games, and most have a least one good one to their credit. Even Nintendo has had it's flops, particularly the Virtual Boy, along with games that have been forgotten, precisely because they are bad. But then I'm assuming that you didn't like the Virtual Boy, so we can just ignore that .

So instead of needing 2 game carts, you prefer 2 game carts and 2 memory cards... I see your logic. lol

The whole point of the example is that the game would be impossible with carts. In other words, a game like Armored Core can only exist with memory cards, since that is the only way to swap multiple sets of data between systems at the same time. Am I making this clear?

Carts-only 1 access point per console (i.e. one cartridge slot).
2-Player data loading-requires at least two access points (i.e. memory card slots) per console.
Now, 2 > 1, right? Therefore, games like Armored Core do not work on cartridge based systems (unless they also have memory cards, which would be the scenario that you describe).

This being a part of what I dislike about 3rd parties. Instead of being original (Capcom, Sqaure) they try to suck the life out of TV shows, Movies, Comics etc. and fail horribly.

And that is precisely the problem. You ignore the mountain of counter-examples that refute your claims, merely due to the fact that they don't suit your tastes. Fortunately, that is not how things work. Although you may not like a game, objective (a key word here) game reviewers and gamers rate them highly, in addition to buying them in large numbers. Of course you are entitled to your opinion about these games, but if you cannot support it with facts, while at the same time explaining the counterexamples, then why should we accept it?

[uc pseudonym]

Is this discussion in violation of the laws of this forum? No. We don't mind even arguments, provided that they are not on the subjects of theology or politics.

Is this discussion in violation of the laws of common sense? Possibly. I would advise, solely as another person, that we all get over this issue, knock back a few (nonalchoholic) drinks and do something productive with our lives.

[cbwing0]

Is this discussion in violation of the laws of common sense? Possibly. I would advise, solely as another person, that we all get over this issue, knock back a few (nonalchoholic) drinks and do something productive with our lives.

That's fine with me; so, here are my concluding remarks:

I will have to admit that I dislike Nintendo, for reasons that have already been explained numerous times in some detail. Most of the games that I play come from 3rd-party developrs, and I happen to think that they are capable of great things; in fact, given that they are not tied to any one console, I think that 3rd-party developers are actually superior to 1st-party developers.

Since almost every game that I like is a 3rd-party title, the PS2 is my system of choice. If you like Gamecube or XBox, that's great. If I had enough money to buy the systems, games, and peripherals needed to keep up with all three, I would.

As for my nonalcoholic beverage, it is kind of late; but, I promise to have a nice glass of home-brewed iced tea in the morning .

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="uc pseudo

[Bobtheduck]

Rare isn't loyal... They signed on with MS... Darn dirty apes! Oh, wait, they stayed with Nintendo. Rare doesn't own the rights to them. (hahahahahahahaha...)

[madphilb]

Rare isn't loyal... They signed on with MS... Darn dirty apes! Oh, wait, they stayed with Nintendo. Rare doesn't own the rights to them. (hahahahahahahaha...)

Actually, Nintendo dumped Rare and Microsoft seeing a good thing snapped them up in a heartbeat, along with many of their own titles (DK and Starfox belong to the big N, however Perfect Dark, Conker, Banjo, Jet Force Jemini, etc ) all are property of Rare and as such are now in gates greeedy back-pocket