PS3+NextBox+GC2= Bad News for Small Time Game Developers

[Fsiphskilm]

After reading this article I just sort of lost

[righteous_slave]

Disturbing concept. I see a monopoly similar to what has happened to TV over the last few years. Console gamers will only be able to play exactly what a small number of money hungry firms are putting out, showing only thier concepts and worldviews. And of cource, if it costs the firms that much to develop a game, they aren't going to shell out for anything less than a guaranteed best seller, like the major music labels are doing. Christian game developers will probably have to endure a trial by fire in the PC and shareware world before breaking into the next next-gen systems. Not that this is impossible, look at DOOM. Never give up the good fight, even if you don't win, you may have made cracks for the next generation to blow open.

[cbwing0]

"Games that take four or five years time now could take 10 years to develop," warned Ian Shaw, chief technology officer with games giant Electronic Arts.

I read some articles a while ago about how the PS3 would be particularly difficult for game developers.

I know you will succeed Volt; Just don't give up.

[Bobtheduck]

That's why getting our foot in the door is so important... Networking, planning, saving, cooperation... It's a massive task, but no different than movies... Actually, 20 million dollars is a paltry sum compared to how much big movies cost, so it's not that rediculous. Always remember, God never sees dollar signs. Only people do.

Also, I think Satan uses money to scare a lot of Christians away from getting involved in the media... Not merely "getting involved" but succeeding and surpassing. God will provide. As long as we "seek first the Kingdom of God" then "all these things shall be added to you" So, in my opinion, there's nothing to be scared of.

BTW, as a related topic, my view on the issue of Christian Video games is layed out in that link (it's to a post I made on CAA) on my sig... "My Goal"

Don't worry, Volt, I believe that some things are going to change in the next few years... Christians are going to get off their self-indulged behinds and start doing what we're supposed to, and stop being paranoid and fearfull of new things and giving in to the fear that satan puts in our way... Hmm... Fear seems to be my biggest pet peeve... Fear is the natural result of a lack of love...

We can not be affraid of what God has planned for us... The bigger part of the Church has layed dormant for a long time... That can't be the case. I am going to excel in my studies... I'm going to make sure I'm at the lead from now on. I can survive without TV and without posting to this forum and watching movies and such (except for 1 day a week which I must relax... I do believe in Sabbath)

You know, I think I've made a descision... You won't see me often anymore... I think I'm going to limit my time online and on my computer so I can focus on my studies... Volt, I would suggest you do the same thing. Also, anyone with dreams like ours, you should do the same thing. Let's work at this together! We need to take the video game industry! Goodnight.

[LorentzForce]

another reason why i should stick with PC programming, instead of console programming. and i learn this just when i'm about to start the last of the longest holiday?

...

well, back to learning OpenGL programming for me

[Fsiphskilm]

I don't like that..

[cbwing0]

The articles were in Electronic Gaming Monthly (EGM) magazine a few months back. It talked about how the PS3 would use multiple processors, giving it lots of power, but making it very difficult to develop games for the system. I have the magazine at home, but I will be going back there for Christmas break in two days, so I can scan it here for you or something. I believe there was also information on Nintendo and Microsoft's new systems.

I personally hope that Sony doesn't fall. I've been a Sony gamer ever since the early days of the PS1, and I think they turn out some quality products. Of course, as more and more games become multiplatform, brand loyalty becomes less important. I suppose I could switch to Nintendo or Microsoft, but I am looking forward to the PS3, and the PSP. The only reason that the PS2 is inferior now is that it was released well before it's current competitors, closer to the release of the Dreamcast.

[madphilb]

LorentzForce somewhat has the right idea... PCs offer the ability to write a game for almost nothing (head over to "Home of the Underdogs" and read about "Scratchware" which should be in every Christian's budget

Consoles are great for game playing (it's one of the reasons I own one rather than throw money at my computer in the hopes of barely running some of the stuff that I'd like to run).... but they are an almost closed market... where the PC, you could give the software away if you wanted, or charge minimumly.

If you think Piracy is an issue, you're right... it is... remember that the next time you download that MP3 or ROM that's copyrighted (don't worry, not getting self-righteous... I've got some too). Dispite that, people still make a living off games, even those that are sold primarily through on-line markets.

So far Christian games have been terrible... most of them anyway, and the few that are somewhat ok are still behind the times (but we've gone over all this before in other threads, it would be OT here)... point is, we'll have to create something people will want to play first.

Keep the faith guys.... it'll work itself out.

[Fsiphskilm]

waa....Oh no..

[Tycho]

The console market never was big for small game developers. Most titles ship from big names (EA / Microsoft / Activision)

Now PC, thats where you should go. Small developers can survive in the commercial/shareware market. Look at companies like Ambrosia and Spiderweb Software. Both have a series of very popular games make by a single person.

This also reminds me of a story about a year ago fortelling the death of PC gaming. Since consoles were so like computers, PC game dev would die out. And the the PC had a banner year and we all laughed at the morons. The mainstream console media is so controlled by the console makes that I wouldn't believe it until I saw it.

Remember: Daitanka was a terrible game.

[Fsiphskilm]

Of course

[madphilb]

Actually, the PC still has a thriving market. In addition to being able to "mod" games to extend their lifespan, PCs are the best place for RTS, FPS, and some of the Role Playing games.

Even with my XBox I almost always flip throught the pre-owns at EB when I go in there, and I'm planning on picking up Baulder's Gate 2 for my PC (they have a combo pack with the expansion for $20).

As I've mentioned before, I beta test (as part of the mailing list) for Kaser Games, and though he has a niche market (Logic/Puzzle games), he still manages to keep his family fed, clothed, and warm on the income from the game.

PC programming does generate some headaches and additional work for you at times though. Since PCs are all a bit different (hardware, setup, etc.) you need to be patching something all the time or have a very good set of beta testers (a big, diverse circle). The work/headaches get even bigger if you cross-platform (i.e. - Windows, Linux, and/or Mac).

The up side is that if you wanted you could give the program away, you don't have to pay a fee to someone or buy a development kit just to write for that system, etc.

[Tycho]

PC programming does generate some headaches and additional work for you at times though. Since PCs are all a bit different (hardware, setup, etc.) you need to be patching something all the time or have a very good set of beta testers (a big, diverse circle). The work/headaches get even bigger if you cross-platform (i.e. - Windows, Linux, and/or Mac).

I actually think the PC programming would be leagues easier than console programming. All you need to program for the PC is a PC, not a special console. PC compliers are easy to come by and professional IDE tools aren't too expensive. I remember buying my first copy of CodeWarrior PC/Mac for $150 (Academic). At that time, Metrowerks made an N64 complier for several grand.

Plus software is becoming more friendly to developers. Most open-source game libraries are massively cross-platform (Spriteworld, Allegro). Even DirectX has a 3rd party library that allows Mac executables to be generated from Windows source. And as long compile-once, run-many languages like Java and Python are used, the OS headaches can be avoided.

[madphilb]

My point was that you don't have to worry about compatability problems.... unless you're doing cross-console versions of the game (and even then, you only have 3 variations of the same mess).

Even when a program is fairly bug/crash free, you'll always have someone with something odd about their system come up to crash it... generally doesn't happen with consoles.

PC software is more accessable, though... which makes it a prime choice for Christian game authors... so long as they put the effor into it.

[Bobtheduck]

There are a crap load of cheap PC games... Starting on the PC is fine, but the genre of games I would like to work with doesn't do well in the PC market... Even though programming is programming and it's all possible in PC and in Consoles, the plain fact is that certain genres only sell well in consoles and certain genres only really sell well in PC... That's why I would only develop for consoles, except for maybe during the time I was getting experience.

I don't think PC gaming holds the key to a breaking into the game industry. It's too easy to go low quality and cult following on that. Instead, it needs to be a top of the line dedicated console development.

[Tycho]

There are a crap load of cheap PC games... Starting on the PC is fine, but the genre of games I would like to work with doesn't do well in the PC market... Even though programming is programming and it's all possible in PC and in Consoles, the plain fact is that certain genres only sell well in consoles and certain genres only really sell well in PC... That's why I would only develop for consoles, except for maybe during the time I was getting experience.

I don't think PC gaming holds the key to a breaking into the game industry. It's too easy to go low quality and cult following on that. Instead, it needs to be a top of the line dedicated console development.

I'm going to have to politely disagree with you on this. There is a load of cheap console games too. Enough to say that we really need to distingush two markets here. PC gaming and console gaming. How many console games translate well onto the PC. And visa versa. Anyone play Starcraft on the N64? It bites. PC? Still one of the best RTS. Depending on the genre, you should pick your target platform.

However, I think the PC is a very valid environment to break into the game industry. Bungie never did console until Halo, but they were popular way before Halo. Blizzard became a powerhouse with Warcraft, not The Lost Vikings. And while Ambrosia or Spiderweb Software may not be "Gods of the Gaming Industry", they both have large followings despite the fact that both are run by only one person. The key is quality. And I feel you can to quality just as well on the PC as on the console. And if you're small, I feel its the only place to get the foothold you need.

Perhaps its because I'm a Mac programmer and my loyaties lie with the computer over the console.

[Fsiphskilm]

I don't think PC gaming

[JediSonic]

Well as you can see, I've already started to hand out free games that I make for PC

[Tycho]

I agree, the image of PC gaming is poor, people head towards consoles because they don't have to worry about upgrades, installation, virus's, crashing, or the compatability. Plus consoles have a very exclusive feel to them..Not everyone can design for a console...That's the point, it makes you stand out more. I mean I can grab RPG Maker 2000 and make a game in 5 min. and attempt to sell it. But console marketing is more...Feals more Grand. more exclusive.

Now I just don't see the image of PC gaming being poor. Or no more poor than the consoles. Sure, consoles have some hardware advantages over a PC (at least a windows PC). But PCs have hardware advantages over a console. I like my keyboard and mouse. Plus most PCs have backwards compatability. I can play Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2, and Warcraft 3 all on my PowerMac. I can play the entire Marathon trilogy on my PowerMac. I can't play Super Mario Bros on my room-mate's GameCube. I fail to see this mystical reverance you play on consoles.

I don't think a particular platform makes or breaks a game. Starcraft was a great game because it was great, not because of the PC. GTA3 was a great game because it was great, not because it was on the PS2.

Ahhh I see. Well what if Apple came out with their own console??? OOOOOooooo and so the plot thickens...

An interesting thought But doubtful, since my roomates have all 3 major consoles and I'm not drawn to them as much as my mac.

[JediSonic]

I think there are valid points to be made for console OR PC games, and that's why there are so many of both coming out all the time. If you are a small-time developer or just getting off your feet, obviously PC is the way to go. On the other hand, unless I'm playing an FPS or RTS game, or something that requires typing, I would much rather use a gamecube controller and look at better graphics than my Celeron processor can manage On the other other hand, there is also modding and things that Tycho has mentioned. Just my $0.02

[Tycho]

I think there are valid points to be made for console OR PC games, and that's why there are so many of both coming out all the time. If you are a small-time developer or just getting off your feet, obviously PC is the way to go. On the other hand, unless I'm playing an FPS or RTS game, or something that requires typing, I would much rather use a gamecube controller and look at better graphics than my Celeron processor can manage On the other other hand, there is also modding and things that Tycho has mentioned. Just my $0.02

Bingo, thats what I'm trying to get at. Neither is worse than the other.

[madphilb]

Something along these lines had come up over on the TTLG forums in the DX2 Forum. Someone from the UK had mentioned that PC gamming is seeing a decline over there in favor of the console. (maybe DjNoz could verify any known trends)

[Fsiphskilm]

hasn't